Elmal, canids, & time

From: Carlson, Pam (carlsonp@wdni.com)
Date: Tue 29 Oct 1996 - 21:34:00 EET


Jose Ramos:
>I think that is the kind of stories to appear in thelayan
territories close to Darra Happa (to remember all that solar business),
who
will see all that Emperor business first hand.

Yes - that was pretty much our hypothesis. We think Elmal has a S
Pelorian origin. As Greg has said, the Elmali and the Hill of Gold
myths belong to the people who were outside Manilarvus' dome - which had
Antiruis enclosed within it.

>Where do the elmali in Dragon Pass come from?

Yup - I think from Holay and Tarsh. They could also be decendants of
clans who followed Elmal in the Darkness, while Orlanth was gone, and
maintained the connection.

>So for me the Elmali are those barbarian clans who worshipped the
sun in orlanthi fashion, and who are prosecuted strongly by the upright
yelmites. So they are forced to turn south with the Lunar expansion.

I assume you mean in 1600's Sartar?
Would the Lunars persecute the Elmali? IMO the Elamli are a bit more
centrally organized - lowland farmers with strong chiefs - which the
Lunars would have an easier time understanding and controlling. It's
the fiercely independant, seemingly leaderless rabble in the hills that
really give the Lunars trouble.

I think any Yelmies among the Lunars would consider the Elmali as
simple barbarians who worship a lesser sun god - poor things.
Understandable, really. At least they're struggling toward Justice.
Elmal worship is in no way offensive to the Almighty Godfather, however.
 Now - your opponents in the senate back home - _they're_ the _real_
threat.

> The Yelmalio incident can be also an attempt to gain legitimacy of
sorts with the Solars

Ever since the return of Orlanth after the dawn, there has been a
struggle between Orlanthi and Elmali clans. (Note how many Elamli sided
with Lokamayadon.) Elmali clans have a stronger chief, and may have a
hereditary ruling class of some sort. They are firm agriculturalists.
Orlanthi clans tend to be more pastoral and have a more fluid
leadership. Their organization into large groups is usually temporary.
After Lokamayadon's defeat, Orlanth Rex began to usurp the old Elmali
centralized authority. The Orlanthi godi tended to support the O Rex
chiefs. Gradually, Orlanthi became the main culture god and Elmal
worship was marginalized, perhaps even reduced to a few small clans who
were considered strange by other clans in the tribe.

Our conclusion was that the Yelmalio schism was an Elmali attampt to
break forever from the power of the Orlanthi Storm Voices, who had all
of the tribal political power in by 1500. The Elmali found themselves
totally shut out of the political process, so they took their ball and
went home.

This is a rough summary of what we concluded in our recent Elmal debates
in Seattle. I'm still editing the comments into something reasonable.
Soon...

__________________________
Richard Crawley:

>a wolf's claws are not really used as weapons; the jaws and
bodyweight/momentum do all the work.

Yup - large dogs generally love to wrestle and are masters of the body
slam. They are also good at grabbing an opponent by the neck and
flipping it to the ground, or breaking the neck by shaking it by the
head. My dogs are natural hunters, so they kill any critter that comes
into my yard. Few of their victims are bitten to death.

Bernuetz, Oliver:
> Is there a difference between the era before the instance when the Great
Compromise was forged and the period after the
Compromise?

Well, redefine that to before and after the Dawn, (because not all
cultures recognize the Compromise, but all know the Dawn) and I'd say
yes.

> time as we in the real world experience it (i.e. the orderly progression of
years, seasons, etc.) didn't really exist before the
Compromise. [time was]more flexible and elastic perhaps with a lot
less predictability in what was
going to happen from day to day.

I think time is generally divisible into vast eras.

The Dark Age - probably pre-humans - elder races only? Who knows what
time was like?

The Green Age/Golden Age - humans abound, and are much closer to the
deities. Things were generally pretty good, and didn't change much.
The world was generally warm, and the weather was usually good - sunny
with some gentle rains. Time was probably pretty plastic, and magic was

easy to work. Magic was ubiquitous, available to everyone equally.
Most magic was worked by group songs and dances. Though it seems that
there was some sorcery back then, too. (Yargan and his crowd.)

The Storm Age - storm makes its debut. Change/ Death becomes a player.
The world fragments, people go every which way, and all work out their
own strategies to survive. Magic is still ubiquitous and easily had,
though now often destructive. Time is likely still plastic.

The Compromise/Dawn - Have to think about this. What do the Pelorians
say about Arachne Solara? (Not that they are an authority, but they
would provide another POV to the Theyalan, and anything that is similar
between the two accounts is likely to be an actual historical event.)

Post Dawn - Time is pretty much linear. The deities become increasingly
more difficult to reach throughout the ages, By the Third Age, specific
rituals and sacrifices get you tiny, codified bits of divine power.
These seem to be a far cry from the ubiquity of magic before the storm
age (ie, singing giant pots into existence.)

Of course, you could argue that nothing has actually changes - only
people's perceptions of the magic and history have changed.
Whatever works best for your Glorantha.

Pam

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