From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Sun 10 Nov 1996 - 12:07:59 EET
Michael Raaterova:
>Events caused by patterns of the Web (Peter's "inactive agents") in a
==================
>timely world: the cyclical progression of the seasons, the reality of the
>Trollkin Curse, the orderly shifting of day and night, the decomposition of
>a corpse, the endless sequence of waves upon the seas, the non-occurrence
>of rivers sneaking into a pub to down a few pints on the way towards the
>ocean, the expiration of temporal spells.
These things occured during the Godtime. We have people aging and dying.
We have days, nights and hunting seasons.
>If i take a sunrise (assuming there were sunrises in the God Time) as an
>example to explain the difference between the God Time and Time, my
>metaphysical ramblings might be more easily understood:
>In the God Time Yelm rose because he willed it and made it happen. If he
>didn't will it there wouldn't be a sunrise. If he he felt like it he could
>suddenly travel to the north to punish the upstart Valind, go back to the
>east to fetch his lunchbox which he forgot there, call it a day and then go
>to sleep. It happened because Yelm did it.
But these things occur now. Yelm stops in the Sky. Tanian creates
The observant will point out that these require worshippers invoking
the sea of flame. A rogue planet interposes itself between the Red
Moon and the Battle of Dwernapple. Zistor invades Esrolia. Waha
sacks Robcradle. Orlanth defeats Kargzant. Wachaza sends Magasta
to the Underworld. Orlanth and Arangorf dance the Perfect Dance.
the aid of their gods, but we can easily postulate that the Godtime
myths are of gods acting on the wishes of their worshippers. Some
of these acts are explicitly acknowleged as such (like Orlanth's
reason for going after the Blue Dragon is because of a famine).
Lewis Jardine:
==============
>However, I believe that Gloranthans know the "exact" length of the
>year.
They knew it long before the Dawn. The Orlanthi 294 commoners.
The Kralori year. The Red Sands of Time.
Nick Effingham:
===============
>>>I'm saying that the Orlanthi version of Godtime IGNORES time,
>>>completeley. Utterly.
>>Wrong. What were those KoS fragments that I just quoted at you?
> The fragments were all written by someone with a perspective of Time.
But the fragments are still the beliefs of the Orlanthi. Thus your
Your hypothesis that the Orlanthi statements have been contaminated
statement is wrong. You can't just drop all statements that say
that the Orlanthi believe in timely godtime and then conclude
from the remainder of the corpus that that the Orlanthi believe in
a timeless godtime when in fact they do.
by an exposure to time to insert timely markers in their mythology
is unproven and doubtful. Look at the mention of the Godtime
genealogies in KoS - are we really expected to believe that a Grey
Sage invented a Vingkotling genealogy and inserted the references
so as to make the myths more comprehensible to the Orlanthi?
Oliver Bernuetz:
================
>Yes, I'm aware that the Dara Happans are said not to acknowledge
>the Compromise at all but why would Yelm want his worshippers to
>know he wasn't any better or more powerful than the rest of the
>gods)?
Does the Invisible God tell his worshippers that he's bound by the
The appearance of an divine intellect which one can talk to is an
The Dara Happans view the New World Order in terms of the Sun bringing
compromise? Does Pamalt? Does the Dragon-Emperor? Does the Nidan
Decamony? Then why do you assume Yelm must know of the Great
Compromise but chooses not to tell his worshippers? It's like saying
that Tolat knows of the City of Alkoth where he is worshipped but
hides this fact from the Amazons of Trowjang.
artifact of the worshippers IMO. This persona only knows what its
worshippers know. So yes, the Dara Happans do not acknowlege the
Great Compromise but this is because the known actions of their god
translated into human terms does not include participating in any
such compromise. The chief reason for this is because the Great
Compromise is a World Council Myth IMO and reflects the New World
Order (so sue me) in terms of the Interacial Unity that the Monsters,
er, denziens of the World Council of Friends enjoyed. Thus Orlanth
makes friends with Elmal, Arangorf and Kyger Litor.
Justice back into the world. Thus Yelm orders his repentant servants,
Kargzant and Shargash about to remake the world. In effect, they are
describing the same thing. In practice, the terms that they use are
geared towards sustaining their social system rather than the truth.
- --Peter Metcalfe
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