From: David Cake (davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au)
Date: Tue 12 Nov 1996 - 09:39:08 EET
Michaels Raaterova's comments on Peters comments have pretty much
It seems to me all to much like - things in the Godtime and Now are
put me off Michaels ideas.
pretty much the same, but in the Godtime they were that way because the
Gods wanted it that way, but now they are that way because thats the way
they were in the Godtime and the gods don't want it otherwise. Or even
something like the world continues the way it always has, but in the
Godtime it was because the gods wanted it that way, but now its because the
gods don't want it some other way.
distinction?
Personally, I think just face up to it - the gods don't have free
will. Maybe in the GodTime they did, but that doesn't mean the world acted
according to divine whim, it meant the gods where not yet trapped into
following their set paths.
>The only difference for Gloranthans living Now and Then, is that the
>natural phenomena are more regular and predictable in the present world and
>freak anomalies are less likely to occur than they were Then.
While the GodTime sounds like a lot more amazing things happened,
bear in mind the MUCH longer time period. Apart from the one or two really
BIG anomalies, like the missing sun, I think the number of bizarre
anomalies that have occurred in the comparitively small number of years
since then is just as large. compare the great darkness to the whole of
post-dawn history, and realise that modern history is only a sixth as long,
and has already included sinking nations, cutting off the entire seas,
rising of a new celestial body, the Syndics Ban, etc.
>Winter
but if Valind invades for the same quarter of every year, then this
[several examples of major disruptions to the mythic order within time]
>would be when Valind invades etc....
bears a remarkable resemblence to regular seasons. Which is pretty much how
I think it happened within the Godtime (well, things were different during
the Great Darkness). Which leads you to the conclusion that the difference,
if it existed was one of intentionality if anything.
> But these are all breaches of time, most probabley the result of
>HeroQuesting, which is the only way to cheat the Compromise.
> I would say that these are the exceptions that prove the rule.
The phrase 'proves the rule' is much misunderstood in these modern
>But I believe that if you ask the Orlanthi godi if time existed
I think he'd accuse you of God-Learnerism or Nysalor riddling, hit
>Look at WF in the Gods and Goddesses section where it
Maybe Greg has, umm... changed his mind? Entekosiad is set within
days - it was originally intended in the sense 'tests'. So lets use these
examples to test the rule - all these examples are written off as
'heroquesting'. So, is there any reason at all to presume that most of the
similar Godtime changes are not also the result of heroquesting? I can't
think of one.
Which would tend to imply that its not the nature of the universe
that changed so much as something to do with heroquesting.
>before Time, and then plagued him with paradoxes *like* the CA paradox, then
>they would happily admit that time was more of a storytelling aid than
>anything to worry about.
you a bit, and if you still wouldn't shut up, run you out of town.
>*specifically states* time does not exist and all actions were taken
>simultaneously in Godtime.
'Godtime', and it certainly doesn't read like time does not exist and all
actions where taken simultaneously.
Personally, I think the idea that time doesn't function normally in
the Godtime is because our own experience of the Godtime is only through
heroquesting.
>Illumination protected Lokaymadon from Orlanth's retribution.
Very true. And why should Illumination protect him? If Orlanth is a
There probably is a real Orlanth behind the mask though - but he
being capable of independent action, a storm superhero capable of vast
magic, capable of striking down those who oppose him, there is no reason
why he wouldn't wack Lokaymadon. Lokaymadon is not a sort of divine
diplomatic immunity, marking you off limits - its an internal change.
Merely the fact that Lokaymadon is illuminated, and able to convince
himself that he is correct, shouldn't convince Orlanth, who should be
pretty much tipped off by Harmast, huge changes to worship (the lack of
proper initiations, frex), etc. But Orlanth isn't a free willed being who
can decide who gets his magic and who gets the spirits of reprisal. 'He' is
a collection of heropaths, spiritual power, myths and so on. The paths
doesn't get to decide who walks it.
never does anything on the mundane world at all, you can glimpse him on the
heroplane though.
Cheers
David
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