From: Michael Raaterova (michael.raaterova.7033@student.uu.se)
Date: Wed 13 Nov 1996 - 14:11:33 EET
It seems that Time is indeed endless...
Peter Metcalfe and David Cake feel that the effects of my disctinction
between God Time and Time makes the distinction pointless, as there isn't
any real difference between the ages.
I never said that there was a huge difference between living then and now.
In fact, my proposed suggestion clarifies why there aren't huge
differences, while the gods retain their integrity and do not become
reduced to will-depleted wishfulfillers at the beck and call of mere
mortals.
David said:
>Personally, I think just face up to it - the gods don't have free will.
>[snip]
>Orlanth isn't a free willed being who
>can decide who gets his magic and who gets the spirits of reprisal. 'He' is
>a collection of heropaths, spiritual power, myths and so on. The paths
>doesn't get to decide who walks it.
>
> There probably is a real Orlanth behind the mask though - but he
>never does anything on the mundane world at all, you can glimpse him on the
>heroplane though.
Now, is this boring or is it merely dull? If the gods are so lobotomized
that they can't even decide for themselves who deserves a spirit of
reprisal and who deserves an intervention, nobody would worship gods - they
would worship the priests and brown-nose with gusto to be taught spells and
to avoid spirits of reprisal and excommunication. After all, the initiates
know that the important figure isn't the god, but the priest, because *the
priest* makes all the decisions. The god is merely an exploitable magic
resource.
If the Gods IYG only respond to stimulus from the priests, then so be it. I
Check the back covers of River of Cradles, Dorastor and Sun County: "[In
believe that it heightens MGF to have the gods be able to send visions,
dreams, messenger spirits and the occasional miracle. If the gods weren't
active and present in the world with a will of their own, they'd be nothing
but natural forces with accessible spells.
Glorantha] the gods and heroes ward and guide their followers, sharing
divine magics while pursuing their own enigmatic ends." Does that sound
more interesting than "Orlanth never does anything on the mundane plane at
all." Glorantha is a game world. It's supposed to be fun and exciting.
Lobotomized gods-on-a-leash are neither.
So how does free-willed gods rhyme with the Compromise? Quite nicely. The
gods agreed of their own free will to restrict their freedom of action.
This pact didn't not lobotomize the gods. They are still in full possesion
of their faculties and can break the Compromise if they feel like it, even
though they know full well the consequences of such an action.
Who were the Sending Gods that squashed the God Learners with Gift
Carriers? Heroquesting priests? I don't think so. Who answers the priests'
divinations? The High Priest in drag? I don't think so. IMG the gods have
the same freedom of will as any individual but have placed voluntary
restrictions on their freedom of action.
Martin Laurie enthused:
>If the Gods had divine intellect then they would be
>much more proactive for their own goals. The whole compromise Myth is about
>explaining to the Orlanthi people just exactly _why_ Orlanth doesn't come along
>and blow the Orlanthi's foes up with great big Thunderbolts.
Martin seems to start with the assumption that the gods don't have free
will and then argues that that is why Orlanth don't smite his follower's
foes. Why not instead start with the assumption that the Compromise is real
and then ask why Orlanth doesn't show up with blazing bolts? It's not that
he doesn't want, but the fear of escalating repercussions. Gods have goals
of their own and strive to reach them by using their mortals followers as
the means.
Danny Bourne wondered:
>>The Chaos Gods are not bound to the Compromise. The gods agreed to the
>>Compromise to be able to keep Chaos at bay, and as long as they keep to the
>>Compromise, the Chaos Gods have limited possibilities to act in Glorantha.
>
> If this is so, then aren't the chaos hating Orlanthi playing into the
>hands of the chaos gods during the Hero Wars when Argrath & Harrek destroy
>the Lunars?
Exactly! Isn't it a beautiful irony?
We have ample evidence of the same short-sightedness here in the RW. When
nations war with each other, the only winner is the arms manufacturer. When
we pollute our environment for the sake of short-term profit, we reap
long-term losses.
That's why the gods keep to the Compromise. If they didn't, only chaos
would be the winner in the end. Also, it has been suggested that gods can't
predict the future because of chaos obscuring the paths, which means that
the gods can't guarantee that the consequences of their actions won't give
chaos a crack to seep through and so remain mostly passive.
So, IMG the gods can move in mysterious ways and take minor actions on the
mundane plane; the Compromise is real and effective; the Web of Patterns
explains and regulates the natural world with Myth; the Chaos Gods are
waiting outside the world and thus can't make powerful interventions;
Questing can change almost anything, including the former sentences.
If someone thinks my suggestions are pointless they are free to say so, but
don't try to counter my suggestions with the utterly dull "gods have no
free will" argument. It doesn't make Glorantha more interesting, and it
creates more problems than possibilities.
Another thing - in what official, non-gregged, non-out-of-print source does
it state explicitly that the gods have no free will?
- -----------------
Michael Raaterova
<.sig omitted on legal advice>
------------------------------
End of Glorantha Digest V3 #279
*******************************
RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark
of Chaosium. With the exception of previously copyrighted material,
unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the
author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to
excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for
electronic retrieval.
Send electronic mail to Majordomo@hops.wharton.upenn.edu with "help"
in the body of the message for subscription information on this and
other mailing lists.
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:53:44 EEST