From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Date: Sat 16 Nov 1996 - 07:56:54 EET
G'day all,
____________
False Truths
Peter and Oliver cross swords:
Oliver:
>What I am saying is this. Any belief structure can be
>based and can operate on what are falsehoods. Maybe not to the
>belief in question but to a hypothetical impartial observer-could
>you find one.
Peter:
>>But what if the belief is _unfasifiable_? Then we cannot say that
>>it is a falsehood or not. Calling such beliefs lies is making a
>>value judgement which is something that a hypothetical impartial
>>observer is by definition incapable of doing.
The most basic check point through which all scientific ideas must pass is
that of falsifiability - eg. to be accepted as legitimate, a hypothesis must
be capable in principle of being proved incorrect.
However, falsifiability cannot apply to a religious standpoint, eg. Oliver's
assertion that all religions are wrong because gods don't exist. Take
the Creationists (please!), they believe that the biblical creation
narratives are divine literal truth. If they are divine literal truth they
of course cannot be scientifically or historically incorrect; and any
observations which conflict such views therefore must be rejected. (In
contrast, scientific theories are held tentatively, and the
possibility of modification or rejection of the hypothesis is always
present).
Of course, in Glorantha, the distinction between science and religion is
muddy, because the gods interact in meaningful way with the mortal world.
Can a 'hypothetical impartial observer' - a Gloranthan hypothetical
impartial observer that is, prove to the Yelmies that their religion is
a fraud then? They might just be able to plant the seeds of doubt in the
minds of some (just before they are consumed by the righteous cleansing
flames). Fortunately, those in doubt can ask their god directly, who'll
tell 'em it's all bollocks.
Oliver (Stone?):
>What I have been trying to say is that
>they're could very well be some elite or core within the faith that are
>aware of this fact. Fine, so what. Doesn't change a damn thing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Peter:
>>It does IMO. It changes the character of the religion in that the
>>leaders *know* that their faith is a lie. Which is why I am against
>>the idea.
If Oliver means that we when you finally get to Sun Lord you're ushered
into a back room at the temple and told "hey, it's a big lie but don't tell
anyone, will ya", I don't buy this, not for the Yelm religion anyway.
However, I'm still happy to have loopy conspiracy theorists about claiming
this is so: makes for great MGF!
There might be other religions than Yelm in Glorantha where the leaders
are *actively* participating in a fraud though, (eg. the Church of
Immortality that Maculus of the Lunar Coders got mixed up in)...
Cheers
MOB
P.S. "The Story of Sheng Seleris" - another great story from Martin Laurie!
I'm looking forward to future installments...
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