Watchdog of Corflu, Umath, White Moon, Londra

From: Stephen P Martin (
Date: Thu 09 Jan 1997 - 07:54:31 EET

Thomas Doniol-Valcroze <>
The Watchdog of Corflu
>The only thing I could find about it was in RoC, and it was pretty
unclear to me.
>Would anyone be nice enough to explain it to me?
Since it is my posting that caused the question, I will answer. The
watchdog of Corflu is basically three parts of a large, presumably
humanoid statue the Lunars found at Feroda. It is a huge head resting
atop two arms, which the creature uses as legs. Thus, the illo should
have looked like a head and two arms. Instead, they made it a dog. If
River of Cradles had included the picture of the Watchdog from old Pavis
(as it should have), this would have been more obvious to newer readers.

a new lie
>>Is the 1st Age Ralian god Humath cognate with the Dragon Pass Umath?
>>Both are violent <war-like deities and they have remarkably similar
>>names. IMO they are.
>What happened to Umath ?
Actually, I don't think Umath existed at all in the first age, at least
not as a universal deity. Most of what is now told about him I think was
invented by the God Learners to explain where all these storm gods come
from. They took bits from Yumatum up in Peloria, bits from Humath, the
Storm and Sword God of Ralios. Now, I think Umath was known as the father
of Orlanth in the Dragon Pass and southern Peloria area, but I don't
think he was (for example) the father of Urox or Humath/Humakt at this

>And then what ?
>Umath went outside of is camp to fight once more. There he got seriously
>wounded, disappeared (captured) from the surface world and fall in the
>(scalpels) of Ikadz.
Actually, a number of sources have given the myth that Umath was chained
in place between earth and sky. Probably only in print from RQ2 stuff,
though. So, he IS the Middle Air now, the realm over which Orlanth rules.
As this makes him merely a personification of the Middle Air, I can
believe that such a cosmic entity never actually existed.

>Then they went back on Glorantha, only to find that Orlanth had assumed
>Umath's Role as King of the Air Gods. Having no more connection with the
>Severed Air Rune, nor room for himself in this changed world, Umath
>a new identitie and a new role.

An interesting variant, which I could believe is told by some clans in
Ralios, since the change of Humath to Humakt is now barely remembered,
and certainly not consciously.
>By the way, we all know about Orlanth's and Urox's mother. What about
>Humakt's ?
First of all, I don't believe that Hykim and/or Mikyh exist outside of
Monomyth stuff, so I don't believe that she is Urox's mother. As for
Humath, when Shannon Appel, Eric Rowe, and I were working on The Broken
Council, we decided that Humath was the original name of the Storm God
worshiped in Ralios. Originally, the Ralians knew nothing of Orlanth or
Umath. Their Storm God was also their War God, and so he was the Storm
Lord and the Sword Lord.

Eventually, he was recognized as Orlanth's brother, for all of the Storm
Gods were being joined together. Eventually, he and Orlanth would have
evolved into a single deity. If not for Arkat and one of his companions,
Maklaman Ironblade.

Basically, the two fo them completely severed Humath's storm aspects, in
the process changing his name to Humakt. All storm-worshipers of the god
who could not convert to Sword worship became initiates of Orlanth. Some
few remained as Swords of the no-longer-Air-God. This is now remembered
in myth as the severing Humakt himself did. But, IMO, the god had little
choice in the matter.

CNU!AUSTIN3! (Lemens, Chris)
white moon; god learning
>If the Sun is to become stationary, I think it is likely that all three
>moons (Red, Blue, and Yellow = Sun) must combine together to become the
>White Moon, which is of course the Perfect Sun of Godtime.
>I like this a lot. Here's a problem: according to monomyth, Yelm was
>by Orlanth, which caused the lesser dankness, which caused the greater
>darkness in which the Spike exploded, which ended up in the Dawn with
>yellow sun rising. At which point did the red and blue components get
>separated from the rest?

First, let me point out that this is only one possible view of how it
could happen. A potential myth, if you will.

Second, not all cultures view the Greater and Lesser Darkness in the same
way. For example, for the Praxians the Lesser Darkness happened when
chaos invaded, and the Greater Darkness happened sometime later, when the
trolls finally arrived from Hell. What defines the lesser and greater
darkness in all cultures is the degree of loss of light. First, the Sun
dies. Note that this is the _Lesser_ darkness. Then, the Little Sun
either dies (Antirius), or becomes obscured (Orlanthi, by the dust caused
when the Spike exploded). This is the Greater Darkness.

Now, to answer your question (let me move this soapbox out of the way),
the Red component is obviously his blood. Since we know that this blood
was mostly lost or hidden, some say even stolen, it is not hard to
suppose that the Seven Mothers undertook a quest to find some of Yelm's
blood when they created the Red Goddess.

As for the Blue Moon, that could be equated with Yelm's shadow. And there
it fell to earth at the Blue Moon Plateau, ruled by trolls. Such a
cataclysm is certain to be badly remembered now, because of the confusion
caused at the time, and the vast amount of time and travail since. So, it
is no wonder people don't associate the Blue and Red Moons, and the Sun,
any longer.

Potentially, of course.

Following this separation (whenever it happened),
>the red part seems to become separated from physical Glorantha because
>required the seven mother quest to retrieve the deity that was never
>and never died. We know the blue moon goddess' role in the seven
>quest, but why would Yelm not have likewise assisted?

Why would Yelm "want" to assist? This is like telling the Protestant
churches that they really should go back to being part of the Catholic
Church! This piece of the One Sun has developed separately for centuries,
developed an existence of its own. I wouldn't want to give up my
autonomy, my very individuality, to become part of some _supposedly_
Greater Whole! The Red Moon had no choice, as it was not really part of
existence. And the Blue Moon hadn't the strength to exist on its own --
its only hope is to return to being part of the One Sun. It is dead

As for the Red Moon being a deity which never was born or died, this
could just be a metaphysical explanation for its unusual status. No need
to take it literally, as a symbolic interpretation is appropriate. Nearly
always is, with the Lunars.

>From an Orlanthi
>view, one could say that the Compromise prevented it. From a lunar
point of
>view, perhaps Yelm simply had a different role to fulfill. How would a
>solar explain it?
He would deny the whole thing, of course.

>A side point: if the perfect sun of Godtime is recreated, would it not
>in the center of the sky, as it allegedly was in Godtime?
Depends on the culture. I do not believe all Gloranthan myths have a
stationary Sun. That is certainly a Dara Happan myth, and possibly an
Orlanthi one. Given the God Learners' beliefs, and what little we know
about them, I would say the Malkioni hold a similar belief, if they
believe a One Sun ever existed in the first place.

But, I am certain both the Pentans and Praxians remember the Godtime Sun
as a being which could move around wherever it wanted. Many cultures
would say that it is similar to what it is now, rising and setting. How
many myths, even in Glorantha, talk about day and night during the
Godtime? Quite a few, I am sure.

The Doraddi, being nomads, probably have a moving Sun as well. The East
Islanders might have a stationary Sun in the far east, since that is the
current focus
of their myths, IMO. Kralorela might have a stationary Sun, or might have
no Sun at all, relying upon a different concept of what the world was
like in Godtime. Etc.

David Cake <>
sables, tricksters, etc
>>>Note: Londra's birthday is shown as 1605 in an issue of Wyrms
>>- -
> While this does turn out not to be true, as Stephen pointed out,

>would provide a good explanation for why she has a size of 4!
Actually, she doesn't -- she has a SIZ of 8. Since these are RQ2 stats,
we should upgrade them to RQ3 stats. And this involves SIZ conversion.
She is still pretty much a midget though. I'd love to see her in a "Miss
Tiny Glorantha" competition with Griselda (just kidding, OTDX!).
> Cheers

Stephen Martin
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:55:55 EEST