various things

From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Sun 12 Jan 1997 - 00:36:05 EET


Joerg Baumgartner:
==================

>...but I harbour the well-founded suspicion that this so-called
>Leonardo is an impostor, or otherwise, erm, forgetful about his own history.
>I really doubt that the real Leonardo as described in Genertela Book has
>experienced the Machine Wars, and survived the general pogromes against
>inventors afterwards. Talar Hold doesn't sport any red-hot brass citadel,
>after all...

Leonardo had to have a good lie down after choking on his hot
chocolate when reading this latest innuendo, so I'll have
comment. Pogroms are not 100% efficient. I think that once
Tosk's Isle had been captured, the Talar immediately subjected
himself to Only Old One which spared at least some of the elite
from slaughter.

The Dwarves who took part in the wars didn't reveal themselves
until the very end would have come from the Greatway and Gemborg
- - both are known for their openhandist attitudes and both had
known of the People Who God Forgot for years. So I think they
were more concerned at the abuses of the Zistorites rather than
the Inventors of God Forgot.

>The
>written documentation I refer to is the Holy Country description telling us
>about the advent of the Waertagi. In perfect chronological order, we are
>told about the Only Old One's duel with Martaler of the Blazing Forge (123
>ST), the Dawn Council expeditions west (their description ending in 115),
>and the defecting of the Triolini - certain combatants at the Unity Battle -
>to the Waertagi, finally mentioning the troll dominance originating early in
>the Silver Age.

Well, the troll dominance is merely described, the paragraph is not
referring to its origins which have been detailed elsewhere (earlier
in the essay under Mythos). I would have thought that the mention
of Krjalkiland dates it to the wars between the World Council and
the Horse Riders at the earliest. I would have thought that the
title of the section maked history was also a good clue that the
event took place post-dawn.

But one wonders one wonders why Joerg applied his analysis to only
those particular paragraphs? Before the paragraph of the Gemborg
revolt is the Dawn. So did the Dawn take place after 123 ST? The

next paragraph following the 'troll dominance' mentions the very
same Uz leaving the Broken Council. I suppose that act precipitated
the Great Darkness? The next paragraph details the Iron Vrok which
is obviously the Kethaelan name for Yelm when he unjustly ruled the
region. Obviously I'm not convinced that Joerg is right in inferring
that the Waertagi arrived there during the Silver Age.

Also the Triolini were not participants in the Unity Battle. That
battle occured northwards in Dragon Pass which is very difficult
for the Ludoch to fight in AFAIK.

Chris Lemens:
=============

[On Arkat making the Cult of Humakt]

> This seems to conflict with the notion of Arkat as the respectful
>heroquester. It also does not seem too compatible with his motivations in
>exterminating Gbaji, if those motivations had anything to do with the idea
>that Gbaji was a divine construct.

I think HeroQuesting with Respect was a philisophy of Arkat's when
he was a Hrestoli Knight. The Chaos Wars were far too brutal in
its final (or even middle) stages for people to start worrying about
'respect' of the Heroplane. Arkat may have revived 'No HeroQuesting
without Respect' when he founded the Dark Empire, but that was a
different Arkat (...in personality, he quickly adds).

Furthermore Arkat's opposition to Nysalor is not that he was a
divine construct. He fought him for different reasons which
are still not known. The Orlanth now say that they opposed
Nysalor on the grounds that he was a New God, but acts of the
rebels _then_ were different.

Peter Michaels:
===============

Compared Eurmal to a certain unnamed Troll Diety. However he
forgot that Eurmal is also known as the Firebringer...

MOB:
====

>PS Peter Metcalfe: Your "does he come from a fading land, I wonder?"
>reference to Sir Gorgonpaste of Losklam (my last Note from Nochet,
>V4 #58) eludes my feeble, work-addled brain this Friday evening.
>Do tell...

A reference to the Meavyn Peake "Gormenghast" trilogy (he wrote
this back in 1940-50s so he's *not* a hack/crap fantasy writer).
The books are about Titus Groan who rebels and eventually leaves
the castle of Gormenghast. The Third Book _Titus_Alone_ has him
wandering around the country only to find out that nobody has
ever heard of Gormengahst (hence the fading land comment) and so
they mispronouce the name like 'Gorgonpaste'.

I confess that I have been accused of being too subtle at times...

Nick Brooke:
============

>(not to mention the normal
>Staffordian inconsistencies we all know and loathe).
                                             ^^^^^^
Die, Heretic!

- --Peter Metcalfe

------------------------------

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