Infinity Rune, Trickster

From: Stephen P Martin (ilium@juno.com)
Date: Sat 11 Jan 1997 - 22:23:54 EET


Martin Laurie <102541.3423@CompuServe.COM>
Killing Harrek
>
>Simon Phipp comments:
>>From a RuneQuest point of view (I know this is the Gloranthan Digest,
>
>>but bear with me - In Gloranthan Terms, Harrek can be killed as he is
>
>>a person - even the Seven Mothers died, even the Greater Gods died,
>>so Harrek can certainly die)
>This is an interesting idea but utterly unworkable. The problem being
Harreks
>total control of the flow of magic around him due to his mastery of the
Infinity
>Rune. Assuming that you could even teleport anywhere near him without
him
>feeling the power fluctuation, all your magic would immediately be
dropped as
>soon as he willed it when you entered the radius of his control.
>
According to Greg Stafford's interview in Tales of the Reaching Moon 7,
this is not correct. Harrek has no "mastery" of the infinity rune -- that
is a game convention for White Bear & Red Moon/Dragon Pass, the old
articles in Wyrms Footnotes/RQ2 not withstanding.

>Harrek or Jar-eel or Arkat or any other Superhero is _not_ killable by
any
>normal method. Thats the whole point. Superheros are fated to die at
the hands
>of gods, other Superheros or other greater powers like Dragons.
>
However, I do agree with this statement -- the death of even a regular
hero (such as Sartar or Jaldon Toothmaker) is the stuff of which legends
and even myths are made.

If someone wanted to tackle Harrek using the aforementioned Axe Maiden, I
would suggest that it would be up to the gamemaster to find a Deus Ex
Machina to prevent the hero's or superhero's death. Also, powerful magic

artifacts are another way to do this. If Harrek carries a magical sword,
into which is bound a fragment of the Unbreakable Sword, he might very
well be able to parry the 2000% hit Axe Attack, despite the normal rules.
The cloak made out of the Polar Bear God's skin might be invulnerable to
normal weapons, no matter how much they are enchanted.

Another possibility, although not in the rules, is to have the GM decide
that a mundane weapon cannot bear to hold such a large amount of magic. A
Sword on which Slash 100 was cast might very well melt into slag in the
course of 1 second or so, unable to contain such powerful magic. And,
unless the Axe Maiden is a hero herself, it is likely that the casting of
so many Mindlinks would drive her insane; the casting of huge numbers of
Shield or Strength spells would twist her body into the equivalent of a
pretzel. If it didn't just vaporize it.

>
James Frusetta <gerakkag@wam.umd.edu>
Argh! ZZ, Trickster, and my crappy modem...
>
>Chris Lemens suggests "rokomal" as the name of the Uz trickster.
>Great! I like it. The only problem might be that it might translate as
>"nose hurting lopers" in Dark Tongue. <g>
>
Another reason for me to think the name is longer. The actualy Trickster
name should not be translateable for the trolls, as I think that most of
the troll gods we are familiar with are actually titles rather than names
- -- IMO, "Kyger Litor" means "Great Mother" or something similar, Zorak
Zoran means "Dark Eater", etc. Subere could even be the word for the
ultimate, deepest, darkest type of darkness, or even be the word for
"Hell" (the deep part of the Underworld, not the Burning Prison).

>I might toss some semi-heretical thoughts at this point.
>
>#1) Maybe trolls don't even _have_ a trickster deity. Either they split
>up aspects between different gods, they never needed one, or they don't
>have one as "complete" as Eurmal.

Pretty much all races should have some concept of trickster. Whether or
not they _worship_ it is the important question in this regard.

Note that I do not think the Orlanthi originally had a single trickster
god, as many of them do now. There are still lots of local and regional
trickster deities in all the Orlanthi lands, but Eurmal is a permanent
deity who embodies a number of trickster aspects. This is likely to be

unique to Orlanthi society, and is a result of manipulations by the First
and Second Councils, the God Learners, and the EWF, IMO. In this regard,
he can be seen as a somewhat successful byproduct of the God Learner
project in the Second Age to unify all trickster deities. This project
did not succeed, but many Orlanthi now recognize the possibility of a
single trickster.

My guess would be that all _worshiped_ aspects of Trickster among the
Orlanthi were successfully combined. But all the non-worshiped (or
extremely local) versions remain. And, some of those are probably
worshiped now, it has been a few centuries...

>#2) Maybe ZZ is the Trickster, and there ain't nothing more to him that
>what we've seen.

He does have some trickster aspects (controls Fire, brutal and arbitrary,
but highly revered among troll society), but he is not _the_ trickster.
In this respect, he is much like Orlanth -- he is a trickster-like deity,
without being a trickster.

>He's a very primitive trickster, primarily because the
>trolls didn't need a trickster figure in Wonderhome (because of the
innate
>superiority of their culture, of course, before Yelm fouled things up.
<g>)
>
You don't think they needed a trickster then to keep them from getting
bored in paradise? :) Perhaps trickster's purpose then was to be
tortured and abused, so that everyone could be happy. And when he
escaped, he brought Death down on them all. Orlanthi go to Hell to get
Death -- trolls go to the Surface.

>Maybe the difference
>stems from when the myth was created -- after or before Rokomal/Eurmal
was
>adopted into uz society. It'd also help to explain ZZ a little -- when
>they reach the surface, the Trickster aspects of ZZ might receed under
>human influence as a "widely worshipped deity at the dawning" among the
>non-uz. Since humans see him as a war god, I'd think they'd downplay his
>trickster side ("I am a stern follower of the Lord God of the Legions of
>Death. But my mace doubles as a whoopee cushion! Wheee!" <g>) because
they
>wouldn't understand the trollish nature of it.yd.-}
>
This is a plausible explanation. Not sure I buy it, but it has lots of
merit.

>
"Guy Hoyle" <guyhoyle@chrysalis.org>
The Great Yelmalio Debate
>
>I've read the posts in the past, and it still doesn't make sense to me.
The
>modern Cult of Yelmalio seems to be a synthesis of several different yet
>similar deities:
>
>Could somebody please summarize the similarities between these cults and
>"classic" Yelmalio, and also explain their differences? I promise I'll
>listen this time...
>
I don't want to get into this discussion, as it could get bloody. :)
However, I would like to point out that any pre-King of Sartar mention of
Yelmalio (except the cult write-up) cannot be taken as evidence of
Yelmalio's nature in any way. For example, Glorantha Book of RQ3 lists
Yelmalio as a husband-protector of Ernalda, and talks about him being the
Sun God of the Hills. In my book, it is now obvious that this is talking
about Elmal -- he is the H-P, and he is the Cold Sun, the Sun God of the
Hills. I do not believe anyone in Glorantha believes Yelmalio to actually
be the Sun -- I think the entire Yelmalio cult would recognize him as
Lightfore. Only the Elmal worshipers would be in dispute over whether
their god is the Sun or Lightfore.
>
"Erik Sieurin" <BV9521@utb.hb.se>
The Glow-trapetzahedron
>
>Does the Glowline extend into the Spirit-Plane? How deeply?
>
That's the best question I've seen on the Glowline in awhile. I have no
idea -- can you sidestep the Glowline by travelling through the Spirit
Plane, or do all the shapes and colors on the Spirit Plane take on a
pinkish tinge as you go through Tarsh? Do Lunar shamans travelling on the
Spirit Plane gain the benefits of the Glowline when casting Spirit
Spells? Can they use Lunar Magic there?

I have no idea.

Stephen Martin
ilium@juno.com
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions
drastic@juno.com

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