Atheism, Kazkurtum & the Lion

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Tue 14 Jan 1997 - 01:58:52 EET

Thomas Doniol-Valcroze:

Me>>But that is not the Brithini PoV. Look at ToTRM#13, the
>>Brithini writer clearly acknowleges the existance of the
>>Invisible God.

>I guess you are referring to "A Creation Story from Brithos", which
>happens to be the origin of my problem.
>But note that the IG is quoted only twice, and only in the first two

But he is still acknowleged to be the same person as the Creator.
A Rose by any other name still smells like a rose.

>where it/Him is given the role of a Creator "beyond
>knowing or feeling or Being" (that fits in my definition of
>agnosticism); never in that text is the IG mentionned again, or given
>any other role.

But your definition is referring to the _person_ knowing whether
God exists or not. What 'beyond knowing etc.' refers to is that
the Brithini believe the _Creator_ is not capable of having such
attributes (ie he is 'beyond' them). The Creator does not Know
nor Feel nor is he Concious of Existance. Therefore it is
meaningless to approach him using human conceits (ie worship,
Jobian appeals for Justice) in the Brithini PoV.

Strictly speaking the Brithini are Deist in that they acknowlege
God exists but believe him to be far removed from the world. This
is not the same thing as agnosticism where they do not believe that
one can know whether God exists. But the Brithini can be described
as Atheist because they do not worship anyone or thing.

David Cake:

>And look at the the
>description of the Kazkurtum period in the Fortunate Succession - while the
>description is horrified in tone, there are lighter parts.

Remember, of course, that this description is quite late. Plentonius
paints a much different tone. It is my belief that the Fortunate
Succession descriptions of the Kazkurtum period are taken from the
memories of the Carmanian Occupation (which surely must have seemed
like Kazkurtum come again to the Dara Happans).

Erik Sieurin:

Androcles and the Lion:

>2. Peter Metcalfe and I disagree as usual. I don't believe that it is
>impossible for others than Logicicians or Illuminates to be
>calcualting on their HQ. The reason is somewhat wuss: I cannot see
>how to roleplay it properly. [snipped reasons for not wanting
>Pendragon Mechanics]

1) You could make a Judgement call on the PC's character from
his previous record and ask him to make a POWx5 roll if it was
out of character for him to heal the lion (ie he has a history of
pulling cats by their tails).

2) You could look at the magic that he knows (spirit and divine)
and count up which points he has in War magic and which he knows
in Healing magic and make an opposed roll (love versus war) to
heal the injured moggie. Odds are if the Pc's chock-a-block full

of spells like Fanaticism, Berserk, Bladesharp, Disrupt and Sever
Spirit whereas he only knows one point of heal then I don't think
he'll be all too intent on healing the cat. (This is assuming
the HQ takes place on the Other Side).

- --Peter Metcalfe


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