Re: Glorantha Digest V4 #75

From: Erik Sieurin (BV9521@utb.hb.se)
Date: Tue 14 Jan 1997 - 16:39:19 EET


> Androcles and the Lion:
>
> >2. Peter Metcalfe and I disagree as usual. I don't believe that it is
> >impossible for others than Logicicians or Illuminates to be
> >calcualting on their HQ. The reason is somewhat wuss: I cannot see
> >how to roleplay it properly.
And Peter gives some fairly good methods of checking whether the
thing is "in character" or not. The method doesn't matter:
The trouble I have with your view is again: "You don't want to do
that." "But I do want to!" "No, I'm the GM. You are a nasty bastard
and would never do such a thing. Shut up. "

No free choice = no fun. To say that "The Lion doesn't care whether
you heal him or not, since he sees you doing it just out of greed" is
perfectly OK with me. To say "No, you won't heal him" is not.
Furthermore, you said it was impossible to act other than
instinctively on the Other Side. I'll make myself clearer: All the
time people think in other ways than by "instinct" - usually it is a
combination of instinct and reasoning. This means that whichever
process you're using, you have to do it all the time. Then, what's

the point of questing instead of doing X die rolls?

BTW, I talked to a friend about the problem, and he suggested that
I'd write up the character's traits in secret, and then roll for them
as needed. When things are not made with the best intent in mind

things screw up. This IS possible, but feels like cheating to me.

Troll Violence:
Uh, just a piddling question: Look at humans. We love violence, most
of us. Yet in the human Trickster figure, Destroyer and Murderer are
just a few of the aspects.

The difference between human and troll views of violence IMO is a
difference in degree, not in kind. Think about it: The trolls have
fled and are now living in Hell. Ergo, the average troll culture will
be more violent than the average human culture.

Divine Magic:
A spell goes off on DEX SR+1 SR/MP used, not on 1 SR. Just about
enough time to shout out to your deity or make mystical gestures. DEX
SR, incidentally, is the time we let it take to say something more
complicated than "Ouch!", "Help!" or "Attack!" when in combat.

Erik Sieurin
>
> From: Peter Maranci <pmaranci@sunspot.tiac.net>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:55:13 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: RQ NPC bank?
>
> Sorry to post this here, but the crash of my C drive took out my
> saved correspondence...
>
> Who is doing the RQ NPC bank? Now that I'm back online I'd like to
> send some characters in.
>
> -->Pete
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Maranci pmaranci@tiac.net / maranci@tiac.net Malden, MA
> Editor, Interregnum RPG/Science Fiction APA/magazine -- email for info.
> Interregnum WWW home page: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci/index.html
> FRP adventures, art and more: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci/rq.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: David Weihe <weihe@gsidanet.danet.com>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 19:36:26 EST
> Subject: Re: Shared Violence == Uz Humor
>
> I have to agree with the recent idea that with Uz, violence builds social
> bonds the way that humor does in Human societies. I think it quite reasonable
> given the usual description of trolls as cruel. Specifically, shared violence
> is the Uz version of a joke. Thus, to defuse a situation, the lesser Uz
> finds something that she/he and the greater Uz can beat up together. It
> might be a shared foe, it might be a big animal for a shared feast, or
> it might be a scapegoat such as the relative that convinced the weaker Uz
> that it shouldn't have just surrendered to the stronger, or just some of
> the weaker side's food quality trollkin.
>
> The Uz Trickster might be the best at finding these alternate targets, or
> she/he might have the power of Punching Bag, where she/he can get smashed
> about like a WarnerBros cartoon character, without suffering permanent harm.
> This way peace is kept between two groups, who might otherwise turn on each
> other.
>
> This certainly fits in with the behavior of the trolls that I knew in
> second grade. Day One of the school year, they would look around. Day Two,
> they would try to beat each other up. Day Three, they would find me. Day
> Four, they would be fast friends, taking turns at seeing how fast they
> could get me into a fetal position.
>
> Thus what humans think is Uz humor is just them thinking of new ways to
> eat the humans involved. More "civilized" trolls will keep these thoughts
> at the level of pure imagination, rather than actions. In the drinking
> scenario from SkyFall Lake, the trolls are really chuckling about how they
> could get the humans to kill and marinate themselves in one step if they
> wanted. The betting on bizarre effects is just the part of the joke that
> is vocalized in the Human hearing range.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Daniel McCluskey (Volt Comp)" <a-daniem@microsoft.com>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:07:59 -0800
> Subject: Me Smash, You die. HA HA HA!
>
> I have been following the ZZ = Uz trickster thread with great interest (
> of course! its about trolls! ) and find myself liking the connection
> more and more...
>
> I'm afraid that I must agree that violence<=>humor connection rings true
> to me. I think that Violence fascinates the UZ the same way that humor
> fascinates humans.
>
> Most humans love to laugh, enjoy joking and see value in humor -- in
> it's place. However, humans don't TRUST comedians, and there is nothing
> so annoying as someone who Cannot stop joking. Normal people realize
> that too much humor is bad and dangerous, but we all enjoy it in
> moderation. Thus the trickster, though an outcast, is vital to the
> human psyche.
>
> Humans almost universally fear violence, and at best consider it (or at
> least Pretend to consider it) a nescessary evil, something to be used to
> get your way when all else fails.
>
> The Uz, on the other hand love violence. Smashing through the shell of
> a Ham beetle, nibbling the toes off a live elf and sucking out the sap,
> watching a Really Good game of Trollball, or even just getting in a fist
> fight in the hall -- its WONDERFUL! in moderation. No one wants to
> deal with a Death Lord in a foul mood... too much violence is, well, too
> much. ZZ is just too much of a good thing for most Uz. In (IMO)
> exactly the same way that Eurmal is too much humor for most humans.
>
> Uz are willing to resort to humor to get out of a bad spot... but I
> think they are rarely comfortable with it, and it is frowned upon. Enlo
> will do something amusing to avoid being eaten, or a Karrgs Son will
> laugh off his defeat by the afore-mentioned Death Lord, but having to
> resort to humor is (again IMO) frowned upon by the bulk of Uzdom.
>
> So, in much the same way that human societies rarely have a single god
> devoted to Violence for the sake of violence, but most human gods use
> violence in one way or another, I believe that the Uz have no Trickster
> God, or god of humor for humor's sake. Many troll gods will have
> trickster attributes in varying degrees, in the same way that many human
> gods are violent, but I think that a Really Funny troll is regarded by
> other trolls with much the same nervousness and contempt as a Really
> Violent human would be by you or I.
>
> - -----------
> Now a question....
> Is Eurmal really a "human" god?
>
> with all this ZZ-trickster stuff making me think about such things, I
> was wondering if Eurmal might not be a troll or some such thing... In
> our world, Loki was a giant, or enemy god... makes sence that Eurmal
> might be something similar... ( a chaos entity of some sort?)
>
> Am I just ignorant of his lineage... or is it actually unknown? Seems
> like a fun thing to play with at any rate. Basically my thought was,
> why would the trolls bother with an uz trickster when they can catch,
> torture, kick around and laugh at good ol' Eurmal. He appears in some
> of their legends (well, the one about death at least), and obviously
> spent non-trivial amounts of time (or pre-time <g>) in the underworld...
> and I think He of all people would ENJOY being called a
> "nose-hurting-loper." just a thought...
>
> danm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Martin Crim <mcrim@erols.com>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:18:43 -0500
> Subject: Bravo, Loren; troll violence quibble
>
> In V4 #72, Loren Miller wrote a wonderful poem beginning with
>
> > MIGHTy WIND, our GREAT king ORlanth!
>
> Bravo!
>
> - ---------
> James Frusetta wrote, apropos of trollish violence:
> >Hmmm. The original trolls weren't violent, though, IMO (Wonderhome =
> >peace).
>
> Whether or not that's true, it has little to do with Uzko today. Adam and
> Eve didn't fight in the Garden, and they were supposedly the same type of
> person alive today. Whereas all the trolls down in Wonderhome were/are
> Uzuz. Uzko came about only in Komor, the Hurtplace.
>
> For the record, ZZ as Trickster is good to think and helps us understand
> that frightful and awful character. Is it True in Carl Fink's "One Truth"
> sense? Ah, it's words, images, stories.
>
> - --Martin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Robert McArthur <mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:32:55 +1000 (EST)
> Subject: Rune magic
>
> One little thing about the idea that a rune magic spell is a ritual, that is
> based on the RQ rules: a rune spell takes only 1SR to cast! I don't know
> about you but that's a bl&^8y quick ritual!
>
> So perhaps what happens to finally cast a rune magic spell is that the
> character:
> o sacrifices POW (in alternate system) for RunePower
> o learns the intimate secret of the divine being's actions from a
> priest or lord who already has the spell - ie. learns the spell.
> o can use the secret to invoke the spell using RunePower.
>
> After all, initiates are going to have been through ceremonies which show
> off the important features and abilities of the divine being: for example,
> Orlanth's shield, wind words etc. What is being taught by the RL/RP is not
> what the divine being *did* - every initiate+ knows that already - but how to
> invoke the effects instantaneously.
>
> I bet the arming of Orlanth wasn't done inside 1 second! But the mythic
> effects of the arming are still resonating and can be 'tapped' by mortals.
>
> Of course, this is why RP/RL are very picky about who they teach spells to:
> if you have a guide, and at least some of the mindset required, it is not too
> hard to learn any divine being's spell.
>
> Lots of MGF possible:
> o to become a RL/RP is more than just ticking that you know the spells:
> you must actually recite a reasonable version to the GM (high priest)
> of each one! And, going on the above, actually cast it to prove you
> can tap into the resonant portion and use the spell.
> o temple politics coming into whether a spell is taught or not. Perhaps
> a priest or high priest grooming a favoured initate will teach them
> much more than is good for them... or so it is seen by another member
> of the hierachy.
> o an initiate+, after years in the cult, stumbles (guided by the divine
> being) across the secret of the tapping the resonance themselves -
> their Wind Words might be 2pts but hear underwater or against the
> wind!
>
> All IMHO of course :-)
> Cheers
> Robert McArthur
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:52:16 -0500
> Subject: Humakt and ghosts
>
> - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Thomas Doniol-Valcroze <tconrad@orbital.fr>:
>
> >Maybe, but Free Ghost belongs to the Ancestors Cult. Does a subcult
> >makes it available for Humakti?
>
> My memory is notoriously bad, but I'm pretty sure that in CULTS OF
> PRAX Humakt had Free Ghost. Unfortunately my gaming stuff is
> gathering dust in storage, since I haven't played in a while.
>
> Anyone?
> - - --
> Carl Fink carlf@panix.com
>
> Someone has sent me email, threatening to send "3 million" forged emails in
> my name. If you receive mail from "carlf@panix.com" and it isn't digitally
> signed, it is not me.
>
> My public key is available by fingering carlf@panix.com, or on my incredibly
> minimal web page at http://www.panix.com/~carlf
>
> - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: <MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:25:01 +1100
> Subject: Re: Broken Broken Council
>
> G'day all,
>
> _____________________
> Broken Broken Council
>
> Michael Schwartz writes:
> >On the basis of **what I now know**, I have to disagree with Curtis Long
> >on the following points about the cancellation of the Broken Council
>
> Then you have everyone else at a disadvantage, particulary Curtis who has
> only been with us for a few days. What is it that you know that other
> people who wanted to play BC don't?

>
> >[Convention organisers] ...have just as many real-life concerns outside
> >of GloranthaCon as you or I do, yet they persistantly do the best they can
> >for a public that doesn't give a damn about them. I suggest that, until you
>
> >have had the dubious pleasure of running a convention yourself, don't
> >point fingers.
>
> As one who *has* had the "dubious pleasure" of running a convention
> myself - RQ Con Down Under; "never again" was my solemn vox
> afterwards! - I will nevertheless refrain from pointing fingers. However,

> it is my experience that a great deal of "the public,", rather than not
> giving a damn, are inclined to be supportive, patient and more than happy to
> step in when the chips are down, >>particularly if you ask it!<<* Look
> what happened when the Broken Council announcement was posted here!
>
> >I personally consider we, the Glorantha aficionados, to be the most
> >culpable in this matter, as it was apathy on the part of many of us
> >(and the vagueries of real life for the rest) that put both the Chicago
> >con and Broken Council in jeopardy in the first place.
>
> But is it 'apathy' when most people weren't even aware that BC was likely to
> be cancelled until early January?

>
> Even without the LARPs, I think Chicago will be a lot of fun and, if
> RQ Con Du and the various Convulsions are anything to go by, probably
> better attended than people might imagine. The vagaries of real life have
> kept me away this time - as a teacher I couldn't attend because the
> con was the weekend right before the Australian school year begins; now
> that I've changed jobs, it's because I haven't got sufficient leave accrued.
>
> >Enjoy the extra time you'll have to socialize with the *people*, rather
> >than the characters.
>
> Yep, that's the best part of a con, in my opinion! I know all the Reaching
> Moon boys will have a drink for me!

>
> Cheers
>
> MOB
>
>
> *and even when you don't: on the last night of RQ Con DU the number of
> people who stepped forward unbidden to help with the clearing up was
> fantastic: I remember dispatching a group of volunteers to clean up the
> litter in the rooms, only to find that a group of lads had grabbed some
> bins and picked them clean already!).
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> >From the Notes From Nochet files:
> (XXIX.12.065-health warning: temple water polo team take note!)
> Even once one gets used to sucking water into the lungs, the sensation
> the Breathe Water spell gives remains most unpleasant. Even worse is
> at the end of its duration, when you must retch and vomit up the
> water still in you. Expel it from your lungs quickly or you may drown,
> even if on land. Anaximander, sage.
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Glorantha Digest V4 #75
> ******************************
>
>
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