Lighfore in the Sky with diamonds

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Fri 17 Jan 1997 - 03:48:05 EET

Nigel Smith:

>Since I'm getting more than usually lost in this thread, can someone clear
>something up for me? Is Lightfore, son of Polestar, most favoured
>worshipper of Dayzatar (Wyrm's Footnotes/prints & GRoY) the same as
>Arraz/Lightfore, one of the Two created by Dayzatar (tFS) and the same as
>Lightfore the planet (GRoY)? Especially since the planet Lightfore is
>always named by title and "its secret name remains a secret (if it was ever
>known or agreed upon!)" (GRoY).

The Short Answer to your question is Yes.

The only thing that might be questionable is Arraz as I've always
understood him to be the Star that is Dayzatar's Eye. I suspect
Ordanestyu's list is somehwat dodgy as a major stellar god is
is omitted from the list which is suprising to the least.

The Long Answer? The names of the planets and the relationships
between the planets each other are imperfectly understood. When
a Starseer says that Lightfore is the son of Polestar, he is using
a constructed (by humans) set of references to understand the
heavens - Lightfore to him was that planet that issued forth from
Polestar. Therefore it is the son of Polestar. Another Starseer
will believe that Lightfore had an existance in Heaven before it
came forth from the Polestar. Since It was in Heaven, it must
have been created by Dayzatar. Both sets of references are valid
(like the name of the Sun is both Yelm and Idovanus - but the Sun
by any other name is still a Sun). The error is assuming that
because it works for him, it is _true_ (in the same way a pre-kepler
astronmer could predict with some work the movement of the planets
via epicycles - that does not make his theory true).

>And Kargzant was defeated by Lightfore, followed by Antirius's rising
>(GRoY), while the DHs recognise Lightfore the planet to be Antirius.

This is a seperate issue. When One God defeats another and occupies
the same position as the Old God, it may be a result of a cult
upsurping another cult upon earth. Thus, Lightfore defeats Kargzant
*may* be shorthand for: The Horse Riders worshipped Planet X as
their god Kargzant and ruled us in slavery. But when Avivath slew
Emperor Huradabba with the Sun Spear, we worshipped Planet X rightfully
as the god Lightfore.

Obnitpick: The GRAY doesn't say that Lightfore defeated Kargzant
but that Antirius defeated Kargzant. Since the Horse Riders
believed at the time Kargzant was the Sun and Antirius was for a
time afterwards reckoned as the New Sun, the confusion is
predictable. But since Yelm rose (ie the Sun became recognized
as him), Antirius was demoted to being the God of the Planet X
(ie Lightfore). Combine this with the fact that before the Sun
rose, the Horse Riders worshipped Planet X as Kargzant and we have
a recipe for chronic confusion (even I'm not sure on some details!).
>So either Lightfore wasn't Antirius, then was, while also being the son of
>Polestar *and* created by Dayzatar *and* being that part of Yelm left after
>the murder, or Lightfore is one or more individuals where Lightfore is a
>title (like Argrath). Or some of the sources are wrong...

This is yet another issue. The Dara Happans are heir to all this
religious lore and they are trying to make some sense out of it.
Part of the problem is that some myths are but metaphor. To write
down that the Emperor dropped his shield at the Battle of the Sun
Storm and ran away could be very dangerous to one's health. But
write in an astronomy manual that that year Oralanantus strode
towards Yelm with the Sword Death. Shargash intervened but was
overcome and cast down and Yelm was by his Divine Justice forced
aside by the base Nature of the God of Murderers. Let some Scholar
finds this manual several centuries later and the odds are that he
will think that the Skies really did behave as was written down
in the manual...

- --Peter Metcalfe


End of Glorantha Digest V4 #89

RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark
of Chaosium. With the exception of previously copyrighted material,
unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the
author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to
excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for
electronic retrieval.

Send electronic mail to with "help" in the body of
the message for subscription information on this and other mailing

WWW material at

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:56:16 EEST