Ephemeris, Prax Myths, Trolls & Giants

From: Stephen P Martin (ilium@juno.com)
Date: Sun 19 Jan 1997 - 08:13:04 EET


David Weihe <weihe@gsidanet.danet.com>
Re: Gloranthan Ephemeris
>
>> Specifically, the positions of Yelm and Lightfore at any given time
are
>> reversed in the Ephemeris. Although this makes reading the night-time
sky
>> difficult (since it is covered in a daytime layer of blue), I believe
>> that printing it out should solve this.
>
>Are you quite certain? I thought that he was starting the day at
sundown,
>like in the Hebrew calendar. Not having read any of the Starlore
sources,
>yet, I don't know that this is mythically right (I would think it
exactly
>wrong for Solar cultures, but who am I to say?), but my copy, downloaded
>early this week, shows Lightfore during night (with black sky) and Yelm
>during the day (with blue sky).
>
Perhaps I wasn't clear. For example, in the version of the Ephemeris
which
I have, Yelm rises in Youth on the Spring Equinox and Lightfore rises in
Lorion. This is incorrect -- _Lightfore_ should rise in Youth on that
date,
and Yelm in Lorion. This not only causes it to agree with Elder Secrets
(as
it did when Nick started it), but also makes the myth of the Young God
(discussed in GRoY) come out correctly.

So, whenever you see Yelm in a certain place in the day, it is actually
Lightfore
at night that you should be seeing. And vice versa. Is this better?

>BTW, I understand why the official sources may have been reluctant to
>have it public. It is so real a demonstration that any errors in it
>could overwhelm the written documentation - if it had the year AS
displayed
>as well it would be used to confirm the recent suggestions of the
>astronomical cause of the Reaching Moon/Unearthed Dragon disaster, and
>"disprove" the Sunstop (which I assume is not displayed correctly :-).
>
Actually, the program does not represent any "actual" year -- none of the
original rising days or times of any of the planets was ever stated by
Greg.
Except for Yelm and Lightfore, or course, who originally rose at Dawn and
Dusk, of course.

Joerg Baumgartner <joe@toppoint.de>
Praxian Myth in Dara Happa
>
As soon as I saw your Subject Line, Joerg, I knew where you were going.
And
you are absolutely correct. In fact, it is even possible that one Praxian
(or a
person with some Praxian ancestry) became Emperor of Dara Happa! That is
my suggestion for why Wanthanelm the Cursed is not counted as part of the
"true" dynasty. One older source (Cults of Terror?) states that the
Praxians
_ruled_ Dara Happa, and Wanthanelm (FS pg. 19) seems the obvious choice
to me.

If this is true, it seems obvious to me that he must have been an Impala
Rider,
as they are the ones most likely to have a strong enough solar connection
to
allow this.

>
>If they could adopt Dara Happan myth that completely, couldn't they have
>slipped in facets of Praxian myth into official Dara Happan theology?
>Especially since this was collected and fixed when they were present?
>
Of course they could have, though you must remember that current (1621)
solar mythology was "rebooted" by the publication of The Glorious
ReAscent
of Yelm in the late 5th or early 6th Wane. In other words, a purity
movement

swept through the land, and may have caused some of these myths to be
officially decried and expurgated.

But maybe not.
>
>
Joerg Baumgartner <joe@toppoint.de>
Uzuz and Uzko, origins, strange theories
>
>In fact, I believe that Zorak Zoran is the original model for all dark
>trolls. the troll myth "Three Curious Spirits" has ZZ, AA and XU
discover
>unborn Fire (the text says Aether, but is a God Learner rendering; in
>darktongue the name likely was something like "hot death"), and ZZ who
>stands way too close when uncovering the yet developing horror in
Subere's
>deeper halls gets terribly burnt. Compare this to Yelm's invasion of
Hell,
>where many trolls are terribly burnt, and end up as hurt-trolls aka dark
>trolls (uzko). ZZ was the first hurt-troll.
>
Very good observation -- I had never looked at it this way. And of
course,
Karrg IS an Uzuz, so what does he really have to do with dark trolls?

>A puzzling role is that of Argan Argar in this myth. Elsewhere
Godlearner
>Monomyth states that he was born on the flight of the forces of Hell
towards
>the surface, yet he is included in this monomythically very early
incident.
>But then, has anybody ever wondered what was in the "sky" before the
forces
>of Fire and Light invaded it? I venture there was eternal night.
>
They also say that Kyger Litor was born to Dame Darkness, and later that
she
was chosen to mate with the Man Rune. The apparent trend is to select
gods
who will _later_ be important, to star in earlier myths. Thus, it is not
really
AA, XU, and ZZ who discover death here -- it is the spirits who, when
they
reach the surface, will be given these names. I believe that many of
these troll
names are in fact titles, not names -- Kyger Litor means Great Mother,
Zorak
Zoran means Dark Eater, etc.

The role of "Aether" as Death helps to point out a possible role for AA.
ZZ is
touched by Death, and later becomes the god of death (well, the god who
can
control it enough to use it effectively). XU watched death from afar, and
gains
an understanding of it impossible to anyone else. Hence her role as the
foe of
Death, for only she knew that it would eventually take all troll life.

AA _ignored_ death. He represents the common troll, perhaps, who ignores
the
presence of death when he can. Life goes on, after all, and few people
are willing
or able to face their own mortality. Thus, AA has no power over Death,
one way
or the other.

>Am I the only one who wondered why the giants - especially the Good
Giants,
>Gonn Orta's kind - speak Darktongue? They lived in an age _before_ Sky
and
>plants when they fought their wars with the dragons. I wouldn't be
>astonished if they worshipped Night besides their ancestral deities, He
Who
>Moves and "Annilla".
>
Umm, where does it say that the giants speak Darktongue as their native
language? The Elder Races Book of Elder Secrets (pg. 83) has regular
giants
speaking "Giant Languages". In Griffin Mountain (pgs 166-167) the only
language all three of the "good giants" have in common is Tradetalk.
>
>

Stephen Martin
ilium@juno.com
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions
drastic@juno.com

------------------------------


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