Re: Glorantha Digest V4 #101

From: Stephen P Martin (
Date: Sun 19 Jan 1997 - 23:11:00 EET

I am experimenting with changes to my email display, which will hopefully
get rid of all those nasty left-overs whenever I post. Sorry for any
inconvenience or eye strain I have caused over the last month.

Peter Metcalfe <>
Dragons, Philosophy and Giants
>>Finally, note that Drang was the Diamond _Storm_ Dragon. This must also
>>have had something to do with it, IMO.
>I think Alakoring was warring against the Orlanth Dragonfriend Cult
>and they decided to force a confrontation. Perhaps the EWF decided
>that sending a Storm Dragon against Alakoring would rob him of the
>advantage of his bag of tricks. But given that Drang was also the
>Diamond Dragon, does that means that either the Dwarves or the
>Caladralanders were also participants in the Dragon?

I like the Caladraland aspect, since Caladraland _was_ intended to be the
erupting breath of the dragon (Genertela Book), very useful when you are
in a battle. I tend to doubt the dwarf aspect, as I don't think many of
the Elder Races except the (trolls and dragonewts) played an important
part in the EWF.

If Drang is partly a dragon, and partly the Ingolf Dragonfriend group,
what could that say about it? Did Ingolf summon the dragon, or was _he_
the dragon?

>I don't really think the God Learner comsomology is correct when
>it says that there were no plants before the Green Age nor Sky
>before the Golden Age. That would be akin to assuming that there
>were no Mammals before the Age of the Dinosaurs - methinks the
>Ages should refer to a dominance of a particular 'rune' if at all.
>FWIW Entekos and the Eight Lights were reportedly in the Sky before
>the coming of the Three Aetheric Brothers and gave off light. The

>God Learners would have viewed these entities as Empress Glorantha
>and the Celestial Court IMO.

Yes, this is a perfect link! Now, we can see that the God Learners viewed
their immortal truths in both Dara Happa and Pelanda. This may also
explain one reason they never got very far into Peloria -- not only was
it difficult, but so many of the myths were so close, they felt no need
to hurry and force the issue!

Can we make a correspondence between the Eight Planets and the members of
the Celestial Court, one that would satisfy the God Learners? Can we
strip away the Dara Happisms enough to determine exactly who the Eight

>Moreover the fact that the Giants are humanoid effectively dates
>them to after the appearance of the Man Rune rather than the Dragon
>Age (which I view as akin to a Dinosaurian Age upon Earth). Most of
>the humans were effectively living in a Provarian (Hunter/gatherer)
>stage when the Giants began their war with the Dragons. As proof,
>I cite the material culture of most giants.

I don't think this is correct -- their humanoid image is only a current
one. KoS talks about the Age of Giants and the First War, and the
entities then were more than gods. They are described as "giants" because
that is how humans think -- they make everything into humanoids,
including their gods. But, just as the elder dragons are not really
draconics, neither are the elder giants necessarily humanoid.

So, I agree that this battle really did occur 'when the goddess Glorantha
was but a child' (as Wyrms Footnotes 14 put it).

>>From the Notes From Nochet files:
>( The Humakti temples of Ralios are unusual,
>even heretical, in that they often use ravens as familiars, rather than
>binding spirits into their swords as we do.
They also bind them into wolves, I believe, though that would be less
common. Hey, here is another Raven myth -- let's start all over again!
Just kidding.

Stephen Martin
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions


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