Re: Dara Happa, Giants

From: Joerg Baumgartner (
Date: Mon 20 Jan 1997 - 23:37:00 EET

Peter Metcalfe disagrees with what I'm saying...

>>Fact is, we have one recorded influx of Praxians, along with their beasts
>>and presumably their myths, into Dara Happa, as it happens just before Mr
>>Plentonius wrote his book.

>Just a slight correction. They only settled down into certain areas
>of Dara Happa (mainly the South and Kostaddi) not all over Dara Happa
>as Joerg seems to imply.

I didn't specify where because I am unsure whether and where the Impala
riders settled.

>>The immigrating Praxian nomads simply took over the role of the horse-riding
>>warlords who ruled that part of Peloria since the Dawn.

>I don't think this is correct. The Horse Riders were last ruling
>Darjiin where Argentium Thi'rile occured whereas the locations of
>the Praxian Overlords (Bison Lords of Darleep, Hungry Plateau)
>are *not* in Darjiin. Darjiin had an autochtonous governer at the
>time of the Broken Council.

I doubt very much that Darjiin was the only place ruled by horse warlords.
They had ruled all over Peloria, from Pelanda into the Arkos Valley. Maybe
Yuthuppa, Raibanth and Alkoth happened to be ruled by city-dwellers, but
what about e.g. Elz-Ast or Karasal? The GRoY certainly overstates Khordavu's
hold over all of Dara Happa.

>>Am I the only one who wondered why the giants - especially the Good Giants,
>>Gonn Orta's kind - speak Darktongue? They lived in an age _before_ Sky and
>>plants when they fought their wars with the dragons. I wouldn't be
>>astonished if they worshipped Night besides their ancestral deities, He Who
>>Moves and "Annilla".

>I don't really think the God Learner comsomology is correct when
>it says that there were no plants before the Green Age nor Sky
>before the Golden Age. That would be akin to assuming that there
>were no Mammals before the Age of the Dinosaurs - methinks the
>Ages should refer to a dominance of a particular 'rune' if at all.

What we can be quite sure of is that there were no flowers before there was
a Sun orb in the sky, which will suffice for me wrt "no plants".

>FWIW Entekos and the Eight Lights were reportedly in the Sky before
>the coming of the Three Aetheric Brothers and gave off light.

Fine, that's exactly what I wanted to get at: there was a night sky with
dark background. The lights in front of it are optional additions...

>The God Learners would have viewed these entities as Empress Glorantha
>and the Celestial Court IMO.

Interesting view.

>Likewise (also IMO) the Green Age is
>more of an ad hoc label to describe the Wild Age before the time of
>the Golden Age Civilizations rather than any actual dominance by

This is pretty much the same thing, IMO: Civilizations imply human control
over the growing nature - fields, possibly irrigation, hedges, etc.

>Moreover the fact that the Giants are humanoid effectively dates
>them to after the appearance of the Man Rune rather than the Dragon
>Age (which I view as akin to a Dinosaurian Age upon Earth).

I'd rather say that the Giants became humanoid when the Man Rune came up...

>Most of
>the humans were effectively living in a Provarian (Hunter/gatherer)
>stage when the Giants began their war with the Dragons. As proof,
>I cite the material culture of most giants.

I suppose most of the humans had not yet originated. Even the earliest human
civilisation - the Artmali - clearly date from after this war.

>Perhaps most of the Giants speak Darktongue because during the Great
>Darkness they fell under the influence of the more sophisticated Uz
>and so learned Darktongue to speak with the little people.

The Good Giants were a lot more sophisticated than you give them credit for.
Their toy magic for their babies was of a sophistication which attracted all
the magical empires of the Second Age. Their material culture is secondary,
really - nobody ever judged the dragons after their artifacts...


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