From: Michael Cule (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue 21 Jan 1997 - 20:22:07 EET
"Steven E. Barnes" <email@example.com> didn't like some of the ideas I and others
were putting forward:
> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:09:57 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Heroes and Will
> I don't believe that heroes lose free will as certain posters
> are advocating. To me, Will is simply a measure of willpower,
> just like here on earth. Since Glorantha is a magical place, Will
> has the power there to alter reality (in the form of magic and
Yes, but it is possible to do far more meaningful changes away from the
Mundane Plane of Glorantha.
> The main reason heroes "lose their free will" is that they die
> (er, I mean "achieve apotheosis").
No, most sucessful heroes don't die. And acheiving apotheosis isn't dying.
They go to the hero plane permanently because the Mundane Plane can no
longer bear their presence. Greg has described this as becoming boyuant with
regard to mundane reality so that you are forced out and pop up to the
GodPlane whether you want to go or not.
Examples: Pavis. The Red Goddess.
Counter-examples: Sir Ethilrist and Cragspider. (But remember that they keep
very small cults.)
> At this point, what remains
> of them are myths and memories, which over time, are elaborated
> and expanded upon by the hero's worshippers. The dead hero, like a
> god or spirit, has no free will because he/she does not exist in
> a real sense. (This is my Nysalorian-Humanist view of Glorantha)
And very contrary to the average Gloranthan view it is too....
THE GODS AND HEROES ARE AS REAL AS CHICKEN SHIT ON GLORANTHA!
(This is my view of the thing.)
> Heroes do aquire obligations, but that is not the same as losing
> willpower. Heroes can "lose their will" after failing at some
> task, but that is a psychological effect of failure, not necessarily
> anything mystical. I recall that Pendragon has some rules to that
> effect involving Passions.
> The HQ systems I've seen that subtract Will from characters are
> simply trying to force behaviour best done through role-playing.
> They are trying to enforce a campaign style where heroes go on a
> few great quests, then retire, either victorious or broken in
> spirit. In most campaigns, PCs never retire, unless the campaign
> ends, the PC dies permanently, or is crippled. The kind of
> roleplaying intensive, multi-generational games people are talking
> about on the digest are a definate minority, in my experience.
Well, I'm trying to model what I understand of Greg's ideas of how
becoming a Hero works on Glorantha. My concerns are not primarily to do with
game-systems although I think you do have to substitute something for the lost
limitation of Death that no longer necessarily applies to Heroes.
And to whoever asked about using NEPHELIM as a basis for HQ rules....
Bah! Feh! A mess and an abomination! The very last model I would use. Neither
detailed nor elegant but an incomprehensible mess!
(I will now go and kick the cat in order to work out my vile mood....)
Actor And Genius
AKA Theophilus Prince Archbishop of the Far Isles Medeival Society
Motto Nulla Spes Sit In Resistando (Resistance is Useless)
Ask me about The Far Isles: Better Living Through Pan Historic Anachronisms
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