Re: Dara Happa and Giants, continued

From: Joerg Baumgartner (
Date: Wed 22 Jan 1997 - 22:50:00 EET

Peter Metcalfe keeps disagreeing with me.

I said
>>I doubt very much that Darjiin was the only place ruled by horse
>>warlords. They had ruled all over Peloria, from Pelanda into the
>>Arkos Valley. Maybe Yuthuppa, Raibanth and Alkoth happened to be
>>ruled by city-dwellers, but what about e.g. Elz-Ast or Karasal?

>Elz Ast was conquered by Khordavu to get the the Feathered Cap
>of Mernita. It's noted in the Broken Council Guidebook as the
>last barbarian stronghold within the Empire and conquered using
>the Bow of Domination.

So Elz-Ast was raided by Khordavu, as the last stronghold "within the
Empire". What about outside of the "Empire" - Darsen, Dikoria, Naveria,

And how stable do you think the "Empire" was with enough barbarians around
that Argentium Thriile was a battle of hundreds of thousands of
participants? Most of that "Empire" is fiction, IMO, maybe a few fortresses
withstanding roaming horsemen. Only the Battle of the Silver Flame gave
Khordavu and his cronies the opportunity to establish a stable gouvernment.

>Hence I doubt that the Praxians simply took
>over the parts ruled by the Horse Nomads as you claim.

I said the nomads took the role of the horse lords. Most rural places likely
had experienced horse warlords during Khordavu's early "reign" over the Good

Your picture may vary, but then you have a tendency to believe Plentonius'

On another topic:

>>Fine, that's exactly what I wanted to get at: there was a night sky with
>>dark background. The lights in front of it are optional additions...

>But back then the Sky was Golden...

That was only later, after Entekos had suckled the Sky into brilliance.

>>I suppose most of the humans had not yet originated. Even the
>>earliest human civilisation - the Artmali - clearly date from
>>after this war [between Giants and Dragonewts].

>How so? You are following that the God Learner identification
>of Annilla was previously the Queen of the Giants and that this
>form predates her as the Ancestress of the Artmali Empire. We
>have no real reason to believe that this is correct.

I have no real reason to believe that this is wrong, either. The Blue Moon
is known for its inherent death, explained nicely by the soulless infant
etc. in the Troll Gods Annilla myth. Her subsequent invasion of the upper
sky has been observed by the Yuthuppans, too.

>[...] We thus cannot use
>the God Learner Writeup to postdate the Artmali Empire to after the
>War between the Giants and the Dragons.

The War between the Giants and the Dragons was a war between mountain
ranges, or maybe another word for Gloranthan (plate?) tectonics. IMO its
beginnings are long predating any life on the surface. The end may have been
a different matter, but what humans may have witnessed it must have been
fresh to the world.

>*Would this make it the Empire on which the Sun Never Set?

Set exactly once. BTW, the God Learners identify its end with the lifting of
the Northern Sky Dome by Ragnaglar rather than the slaying of Yelm.

>>The Good Giants were a lot more sophisticated than you give them
>>credit for.

>I wasn't not talking about the Good Giants.

Well, I was, all the time.

>I'm talking about
>the rank-and-file Giants who sing 'Fee Fie Fo Fum' when sitting
>on the Giants Table sniffing for Blood. It was these, I thought
>you meant when you talked about Darktongue speaking Giants rather
>than the Tradetalk speaking Good Giants.

Those are a minority of two to four (I'd count Gonn Orta, am less sure about
Boshbisil, and note that the remaining two are a lot smaller than the infant
in the Cradle...)

I don't know where or when the lesser giants originated.


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:56:33 EEST