More stuff

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Thu 23 Jan 1997 - 11:50:44 EET

Andrew Joelson:

> It has been pointed out recently onthe digest that Elves are
>linked to the Plant Rune, not the Man Rune, and I think Mostali are
>linked to Stone (?). Dwarves may very well be linked to the Man Rune,
>but they are a manufactored race, cobbled together by the Mostali.

The Elves have a humanoid form and so have some relationship to the
humans. If they were created when humans weren't around, then they
would have looked different like Hroolar or the Bazkarto. That is
what I mean by a relationship to the Man Rune.

The Clay Mostali were created after humans and it has been said
that the True Mostali are not bound to their current forms.

Joerg Baumgartner:

DD>>And why are dragons so special? Dara Happa killed large numbers of them
>>during Dismanthuyar's reign.

>Using Carmanian techniques, which involved becoming draconic themselves (at
>least to some extent). Most of the large numbers of dragons slain will have
>been dragonewts...

The Carmanian techniques in killing Dragons weren't used by the Dara
Happans until after Dara Happa was liberated and Karvanyar sought
aid from the 'War Gods'. Even then, he pissed them off so they
withdrew and didn't come back until Sarenesh's time. After Sarenesh,
Karsdevan said 'I am not a Carmanian' and purged all Carmanian rituals
from Dara Happa. Yet the War against the EWF continued all through
these Emperors. So while Carmanian techniques were used some of the
time and were very helpful, they weren't used all of the time IMO.

>So Elz-Ast was raided by Khordavu, as the last stronghold "within the
>Empire". What about outside of the "Empire" - Darsen, Dikoria, Naveria,

Read the GRAY - some of those lands (Naveria and Kestinliddi) are
stated as joining the ten princes while 'Pelanda' is used rather
sloppily and may refer to the other northwestern states - the
Pelandans themselves don't join Dara Happa according to the

>And how stable do you think the "Empire" was with enough barbarians around
>that Argentium Thriile was a battle of hundreds of thousands of
>participants? Most of that "Empire" is fiction, IMO, maybe a few fortresses
>withstanding roaming horsemen. Only the Battle of the Silver Flame gave
>Khordavu and his cronies the opportunity to establish a stable gouvernment.

There's a problem in that the World Council records of the battle
in that they are quite ignorant of whom they are fighting. For
example, Kestinendos is reckoned as a Horse barbarian yet we know
he came from Rinliddi. So I'm not actually convinced that the
account given in Trollpak is an accurate one.

Given that Khordavu was crowned nine years before Argentium Thi'rile
was fought, one wonders why that when the Horse Barbarians mustered,
they bypassed the Three Cities when crossing the Oslir to meet up in
Darjiin so they could destroy the World Council? Why didn't they try
and retake Dara Happa *first*? If Dara Happa was sacked why isn't
the GRAY full of paens of priase for the liberators?

I shall note in passing that the GRAY was composed by a known cock-
and-bull artist at a time when the Dara Happans were initially
friendly to the World Council and that Horse Riders can be hired as


Me>>How so? You are following that the God Learner identification
>>of Annilla was previously the Queen of the Giants and that this
>>form predates her as the Ancestress of the Artmali Empire. We
>>have no real reason to believe that this is correct.

>I have no real reason to believe that this is wrong, either. The Blue Moon
>is known for its inherent death, explained nicely by the soulless infant
>etc. in the Troll Gods Annilla myth. Her subsequent invasion of the upper
>sky has been observed by the Yuthuppans, too.

The Soulless child myth is not told by the Pelorian Blue Moon
Trolls. Hence I view the Troll Gods account as a created pastiche
which tries to connect two or more divinities as one god. Hence
I don't trust the _implied_ chronology in it.

>>*Would this make it the Empire on which the Sun Never Set?

>Set exactly once. BTW, the God Learners identify its end with the lifting of
>the Northern Sky Dome by Ragnaglar rather than the slaying of Yelm.

I've heard it broke up before the sun was killed. And I think
the Veldang blame the creation of the Nargan and the destruction
of their Empire on the Red Giants of Garanzarn and stare blankly
at those ice people who jabber about ragnaglar.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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