the Carmanian Humakti retcon

From: David Cake (
Date: Thu 23 Jan 1997 - 12:12:15 EET

        Well, first I have to say I have some sympathies with Andrew
Joelsons suggestion that conceivably the god worshipped in Carmania is, for
all intents and purposes, Humakt having been spread by wandering Humakt
disillusioned with Arkat who joined up with Talor. Or they could have got
the cult much later, in the times of the Three Brothers who divided the
world, from Saird (of course Humakt comes from Saird, everything comes from
Saird ;-), except the things that don't, of course), at the time the
Carmanians got into the Lightbringers quest and so on. I'd rather have
someone who has a better grasp of things Carmanian than me decide, though.
Its worth noting that Syranthir himself performs a 'severing of his kin'
with an iron sword, which sounds sort of Humakti, and predates the founding

of modern Carmania.

        Andrew's other suggestion
>I prefer to think that YT actually joined up with
>the Humakt cult whilst in exile.
        I can't agree with, though. I know Andrew is not acquainted with
the zero wane Lunar history - Yanafals ends up taking on Humakt one to one
precisely because of the Carmanian Humakti summoning him to fight at the
Battle of Four Arrows of Light. So there were Carmanian Humakti before

But back to Stephens suggestion
>> Now, Yanafals almost certainly did not worship 'Humakt'. But he
>>almost certainly worshipped a Carmanian god that a Manirian (or
>>Yanafali) would recognise as being a lot like Humakt, and that a God
>>Learner would almost certainly think was the same guy.
>This is my entire premise, that he worships a similar deity.

        Ah, but the part I balk at is the degree of similarity. A Carmanian
variant of Humakt with a different name but many functional similarities?
Sure. No one gets upset because Humakt in Ralios is called Humath, has
funny allied spirits, and retains some storm connection. The differences
are large enough to be plausible, but small enough that old sources don't
need to be abandoned. If the Carmanians pronounce Humakt Hamakz or
something, and have some Carmanian dualist hang up about him, and have a
slightly different code of behaviour (they are probably even more opposed
to ambushes, given the Carmanian attitude to Dart Competitions, for
example), then that is cool with everyone. Quite possibly there are much

more significant differences (perhaps a relationship with the Bashkars),
but I expect Humakt as eventually redefined in Carmania to be part of the
origin of the Yanafals cult (and the reason why it is so much like the
Humakt cult), to summon their god to fight at the battle of Four Arrows of

Light, to be worshipped by Carmanian warriors, and in all other ways not
conflict with published sources too grievously.
        But I have to say I would never describe Carmanos as 'similar' to
Humakt. Carmanos is a deity of the Karmanoi, not the Hazzars. He is not a
great grim death god, but a hero known for many things, including being a
fertile founder of a dynasty. There may well be a connection between the

two (as I said, the Bashkars may fit in here somehow), but I don't think
you can simply identify one with the other.
        Anyway, I think the Carmanian stuff produced so far is absolutely
superb, and Gregs older work on the Lunar Empire which predates it is also
one of my favourite things from that era. I don't want to see any of it
prematurely messed about with just to satisfy an urge to remove untidy
deities from inappropriate areas - I'm sure that will be addressed in time.




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