From: Stephen P Martin (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Thu 23 Jan 1997 - 19:49:12 EET
Joerg Baumgartner <email@example.com>
Giants speaking Darktongue
>Steve Martin chides me (and everybody else):
>>No one has answered the question for me, of where it is stated the
>Earliest mention is in the RQ2 rulesbook, p.103:
>"Creatures of darkness, such as trolls, giants, shades, and their ilk,
Thanks. Now, I have the same problem with you about giants being
creatures of darkness. I didn't when I first got RQ2 (1980), but I did
after reading Griffin Mountain. Admittedly, that wasn't until I bought it
in 1991, but it does sort of blow that whole thing. From a giant's pov,
Perhaps, since some of the most famous giants in the DP area (speaking
broadly) are the traders at Gonn Orta's home, 2 out of 3 of whom speak
Darktongue, and since the _trolls_ probably claim giants as darkness
related, that this older statement is just a misunderstanding on
Of course, the fact that their children have to be sent to Hell to grow
up _does_ support the darkness link. So, it seems it is more complicated
than anyone (or at least me and Joerg) may have thought.
Joerg Baumgartner <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Re: Dara Happa and Giants, continued
>>*Would this make it the Empire on which the Sun Never Set?
>Set exactly once. BTW, the God Learners identify its end with the
>the Northern Sky Dome by Ragnaglar rather than the slaying of Yelm.
Which in itself can be seen as a variant viewpoint of the Sun's death --
the fiery sky is slain/lifted, and the burning body falls to the
west/south. Since the Artmali are the only ones (well, maybe some Doraddi
too) who remember the burning falling to the south, the God Learners
discounted this belief by saying it was not the death of the Sun but the
lifting of the Dome. They couldn't ignore the belief completely, since
the Burning Desert/Sea IS down south, after all.
But I don't know any of this for sure, the Artmali might _also_ have a
myth about the Sun dying and falling to the west. But this seems a bit
more interesting to me.
>>>The Good Giants were a lot more sophisticated than you give them
>>I wasn't not talking about the Good Giants.
>Well, I was, all the time.
Possible confusion in terms, here -- I thought by "Good Ginats", the
discussion was talking about the Good Giant Mountains, which according to
myth are originally Elder Giants. Not all of whom were "Good" -- some
were "Big", some were "Little", and I am sure that someplace, someone
believes they were "Cruel" or "Purple". Or somesuch.
>I don't know where or when the lesser giants originated.
I think that there is really no distinction between the lesser and
giants, despite what Elder Secrets and Griffin Mountain imply. Gonn Orta
started out as a run of the mill giant, just as Boshbisil did (is). If a
giant survived long enough, and does the right kind of giant things, he
or she can survive to become an Elder Giant. Note that Gonn Orta is not
an elder giant _yet_, though he is well on his way to becoming one.
Even if this is not believed, Boshbisil and the other giants at Gonn
Orta's Castle do trace their descent to the Elder Giants, and I think
Boshbisil et al are "lesser" giants, merely civilized ones. So, I would
say the lesser giants are progeny of the Elder Giants.
Maybe only the civilized lesser giants have access to the proper culture
(and hence magics/rituals/whatever) to become Elder Giants. It could also
have something to do with the mysterious Giant's Door Mountain, to which
the Giant's Path (in Dragon Pass) leads. Anyone want to guess where the
giants go when walk up the stairs and through this door?
As a related note, the information in the Cradle scenario was that all of
the babies in the past had been male. But, the one in 1621 is a girl, the
first one recorded. From these statements, I assumed that the Elder
Giants were a male-only race, who required certain magical properties to
create a new child.
When I told this to Greg, he flatly denied it, stating that there were
male and female Elder Giants. Thus, they can mate.
>From Griffin Mountain, I almost get the impression that the Elder Giants
are either asexless or hermaphroditic, or able to change their sex at
will. Asexless seems best to me -- any two Elder Giants together can
create a new Elder Giant baby. BTW, I guess the fact that the baby in the
Cradle is Gonn Orta's daughter (per Greg's interview in Tales 7), means
that Gonn Orta _is_ an Elder Giant now.
The Book of Drastic Resolutions
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