Kestinendos, Carmanos Humakti,

From: Stephen P Martin (
Date: Sat 25 Jan 1997 - 07:13:49 EET

Peter Metcalfe <>
More stuff
>There's a problem in that the World Council records of the battle
>in that they are quite ignorant of whom they are fighting. For
>example, Kestinendos is reckoned as a Horse barbarian yet we know

>he came from Rinliddi. So I'm not actually convinced that the
>account given in Trollpak is an accurate one.
To some extent, he _is_ a "Horse barbarian". He may have been the Bright
Eagle Lord of Rinliddi, but look at GRoY (Ivory) pg. 99 -- "He was of the
lineage of Emperor Jenarong, and the grandson of [Breaker of Walls]. With
the first two Bright Eagle Lords (Kestinmodos and Kestingatha), GRoY
specifically states that each was the heir of the previous lord. For
Kestinendos, it does not say this, whcih specifically implies that he is
_not_ the son of the previous lord (who in this case was Kestingatha).

Also, he ascended to be Emperor of Dara Happa with the Rites of Jenarong.
>From this and his lineage, I have to assume he is a "Pentan" more than a


>I shall note in passing that the GRAY was composed by a known cock-
>and-bull artist at a time when the Dara Happans were initially
>friendly to the World Council and that Horse Riders can be hired as
Although this is true, all of the sources pretty much agree that the Dara
Happans were not in control here. I think the point Joerg is trying to
make is that the whole story of Khordavu is a bunch of cock-and-bull.
Khordavu did _not_ rule all of the land. He was not even master of most
of the land -- the nomads still were! He had a few strongholds full of
his "allies" (later called his subjects by Plentonius), and so the three
cities could withstand the nomads for a time. But he was not the lord of

the entire Oslir River, IMO.

>>I have no real reason to believe that this is wrong, either. The Blue
>>is known for its inherent death, explained nicely by the soulless
>>etc. in the Troll Gods Annilla myth. Her subsequent invasion of the
>>sky has been observed by the Yuthuppans, too.
>The Soulless child myth is not told by the Pelorian Blue Moon

>Trolls. Hence I view the Troll Gods account as a created pastiche

>which tries to connect two or more divinities as one god. Hence
>I don't trust the _implied_ chronology in it.
I believe this is correct. GRoY supports this view, for it has at least 4
or 5 different deities who could be the Blue Moon. For example, from
Troll Gods and the way "The Perfect Sky" is written, I assume the planet
Uleria is the one which some trolls remember as their Blue Moon. Ulurda
and Ulurdum were also blue planets. The goddess Annilha, mentioned in the
GodsWall section as the Blue Streak, may be another. I have postulated
the existence of another blue planet, which I call the Boat Planet, known
to the Dara Happans as their emperor Anaxial (after his death). Greg has
so far accepted this idea, so there is another choice. I think it is
likely that aspects of a number of these entities make up various parts
of the Troll Gods very God Learneresque Annilla cult write-up.

Greg has even said, quite recently, that perhaps the planet
Mastakos/Uleria is the one the Loper People worshiped as their "Annilla".
I noted that this planet goes to the western sky, then "teleports" to the
eastern sky. The Loper People are noted for their supposed ability to
teleport, per the Annilla cult write-up.

The Lunars claim that an earlier avatar of the Red Goddess, Princess
Cerulia, was in the sky at some time in the past. She may be one or more
of these bodies, or a different one.

Peter Metcalfe <>
humakt in carmania

>>but it seems unlikely to me that a Carmanian or Dara Happan
>>noble would have worshiped Humakt.
>Why not? The Carmanians do get some of their gods from Fronela.
>We know that there was a Ralian influence in Fronela since the
>Chaos Wars (from Talor's expedition into Ralios) and before if
>my story about Arkat's father is correct. So there's plenty
>of scope for a cult of Humakt in Carmania even if he is called
>something exotic like Humct.
Just doesn't match the stuff on Carmania and its origins that Greg has
shown me. Could be, though -- depends on where the die finally stops, I
suppose. Of course, a bit of lobbying with Greg (at conventions or by
letter) never hurt, either. I have no strong opinions at this point on
the matter, just a belief.

David Cake <>
the Carmanian Humakti retcon
>Its worth noting that Syranthir himself performs a 'severing of his kin'
>with an iron sword, which sounds sort of Humakti, and predates the
>of modern Carmania.
Is this from Fortunate Succession? If so, it does make it much more
likely that Humakt is known in Carmania. Unless the modern Humakti
beliefs of the Orlanthi were affected by the Three Brothers spreading
their cult into Saird. Just kidding.

>but I expect Humakt as eventually redefined in Carmania to be part of
>origin of the Yanafals cult (and the reason why it is so much like the
>Humakt cult),

Except that the Yanafal Ta'arnils cult may no longer _be_ so close to the
Humakt cult -- if Greg were to do it as a cult write-up right now, I
doubt it would simply be the "Humakt under another name" cult which
exists on disk at Chaosium right now. How close it would be, I don't
know, but the more Greg works on the Lunar origins and philosophies, the
less alike the two will be, IMO.

Stephen Martin
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions


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