Horse Emperors? Chariots!

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Sat 25 Jan 1997 - 15:09:46 EET

Stephen P Martin:

I gave my reasons for doubting World Council records of
Dara Happa as being nomad ruled by citing:

Me>>For example, Kestinendos is reckoned as a Horse barbarian yet
>>we know he came from Rinliddi.

>To some extent, he _is_ a "Horse barbarian". He may have been the Bright
>Eagle Lord of Rinliddi, but look at GRoY (Ivory) pg. 99 -- "He was of the
>lineage of Emperor Jenarong, and the grandson of [Breaker of Walls]. With
>the first two Bright Eagle Lords (Kestinmodos and Kestingatha), GRoY
>specifically states that each was the heir of the previous lord. For
>Kestinendos, it does not say this, whcih specifically implies that he is
>_not_ the son of the previous lord (who in this case was Kestingatha).

I'm sorry but it _does_ state that Kestinendos is heir of the
previous lord on page 99. Furthermore Kestinendos is cited as
a chariot emperor on p93 of the Fortunate Succession. Which
makes him considerably more Dara Happan than Pentan IMO. Now the
World Council may have been mistaken in assuming that Kestinendos
was a horse barbarian *if* he rode a horse, but the chariot
would have given the game away. Rinliddi does appear to allow
descent through the female line (Khorviramaka and perhaps Alenvus)
so I assume Kerunebbe was his maternal grandfather.

>Also, he ascended to be Emperor of Dara Happa with the Rites
>of Jenarong.

Not stated in the GRAY along with Dardaggus [Eater of Flesh]
and Viramakradda [Dispenser of Horses]. Although Dardaggus's
enthronement is described, Plentonius omits the caustic sneer
rather suprisingly. All three are chariot emperors which may
be relevant.

>Khordavu did _not_ rule all of the land. He was not even master of most
>of the land -- the nomads still were! He had a few strongholds full of
>his "allies" (later called his subjects by Plentonius), and so the three
>cities could withstand the nomads for a time.

I disagree that most lands outside the Tripolis were nomad-ruled.
>From the arming of Khordavu depicted on the front cover of the
GRAY, the only horse riders are the ones from Rinliddi. This
freize is stated to be commemorate Khordavu's Arming before going
into battle to defeat the Monster Army. Now if the nomads were
ruling these places, surely there would be horsemen in the other
three regions?

>But [Khordavu] was not the lord of the entire Oslir River, IMO.

If so, you have not explained the critical point of why the
Horse Nomads muster a massive army from the east, cross the
Oslir to engage the World Council in Darjiin without trying
to reduce Dara Happa. Considering that Hilly Darjiin is not
suitable territory for grazing horse armies, the army would
have to have supply lines from elsewhere. Since Dara Happa
can easily cut those lines when they pass the Oslir, the
Horse Rider generals must have been abysmally stupid to march
into Darjiin if Dara Happa was hostile to them.

Hence I still don't trust the World Council records.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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