Dragons and Giants

From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@toppoint.de)
Date: Sat 25 Jan 1997 - 17:27:00 EET

Peter Metcalfe
>DD>>And why are dragons so special? Dara Happa killed large numbers of them
>>>during Dismanthuyar's reign.

>>Using Carmanian techniques, which involved becoming draconic themselves (at
>>least to some extent). Most of the large numbers of dragons slain will have
>>been dragonewts...

>The Carmanian techniques in killing Dragons weren't used by the Dara
>Happans until after Dara Happa was liberated and Karvanyar sought
>aid from the 'War Gods'.

If I remember correctly, the Dara Happan liberation from EWF rule was
achieved with Carmanian aid.

>Even then, he pissed them off so they
>withdrew and didn't come back until Sarenesh's time. After Sarenesh,
>Karsdevan said 'I am not a Carmanian' and purged all Carmanian rituals
>from Dara Happa. Yet the War against the EWF continued all through
>these Emperors. So while Carmanian techniques were used some of the
>time and were very helpful, they weren't used all of the time IMO.

Then what techniques were used IYO?

>>And how stable do you think the "Empire" was with enough barbarians around
>>that Argentium Thriile was a battle of hundreds of thousands of
>>participants? Most of that "Empire" is fiction, IMO, maybe a few fortresses
>>withstanding roaming horsemen. Only the Battle of the Silver Flame gave
>>Khordavu and his cronies the opportunity to establish a stable gouvernment.

>There's a problem in that the World Council records of the battle
>in that they are quite ignorant of whom they are fighting. For
>example, Kestinendos is reckoned as a Horse barbarian yet we know
>he came from Rinliddi. So I'm not actually convinced that the
>account given in Trollpak is an accurate one.

Actually, I think that any successful Emperor of Dara Happa of that age
would have behaved somewhat like a horse barbarian in the battlefield.

>Given that Khordavu was crowned nine years before Argentium Thi'rile
>was fought, one wonders why that when the Horse Barbarians mustered,
>they bypassed the Three Cities when crossing the Oslir to meet up in
>Darjiin so they could destroy the World Council? Why didn't they try
>and retake Dara Happa *first*?

Because they had a notorious problem with taking fortified cities, and they
swayed over the land in between as they wished. Thynk you for proving my

>If Dara Happa was sacked why isn't
>the GRAY full of paens of priase for the liberators?

Because all of this happened by the divine justice of Khordavu, of course.
Remember how he sent the monster army home after that battle...

>I shall note in passing that the GRAY was composed by a known cock-
>and-bull artist at a time when the Dara Happans were initially
>friendly to the World Council and that Horse Riders can be hired as

Dara Happan gratitude is notoriously short-lived. Ask the Lunars, ask the
Carmanians, or ask the Second Council. I doubt that Plentonius thought much
about the Council.


>Me>>How so? You are following that the God Learner identification
>>>of Annilla was previously the Queen of the Giants and that this
>>>form predates her as the Ancestress of the Artmali Empire. We
>>>have no real reason to believe that this is correct.

>>I have no real reason to believe that this is wrong, either. The Blue Moon
>>is known for its inherent death, explained nicely by the soulless infant
>>etc. in the Troll Gods Annilla myth. Her subsequent invasion of the upper
>>sky has been observed by the Yuthuppans, too.

>The Soulless child myth is not told by the Pelorian Blue Moon

Right. So it must have come from someplace else, like the Eastern Rockwood

>Hence I view the Troll Gods account as a created pastiche
>which tries to connect two or more divinities as one god.

Which it is, no doubt.

>Hence I don't trust the _implied_ chronology in it.

Well, I haven't found any better chronology for the Blue Moon goddess of the
Artmali, of whom we can be quite sure that she had undergone the soulless
child myth. Give me anything better, and you can persuade me, but don't give
me a "no" with no alternatives.


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