more shargash

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Sun 26 Jan 1997 - 06:09:44 EET

Martin Laurie:

Me>>To many in Alkoth, Shargash is an Aspect or Mask of Yelm (like
>>Krishna is considered an avatar of Vishnu) and so there is no
>>conflict between worshipping Shargash and worshipping Yelm (like
>>there is no conflict between the Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ).

>I disagree, in Alkoth Shargash is _real_, he's really there and
>felt by all.

I'm not denying the _reality_ of Shargash. I'm just denying that
they see Yelm and Shargash as being seperate. A 'Mask' is a
Lunarism for this type of thing. Shargash is a manifestation of
Yelm just as much as Alkor is a manifestation of Shargash is all
that I meant to say.

>Also remember that to the Shargashi they obey Yelm but they also ruled
>themselves too. Many times Alkoth has been without an Emperor in Raibanth
>and they just keep going, making their own Kings or Emperors (Eusibus
>being the classic example).

Yelm does not equal Raibanth in the Alkothian or anybody's PoV.
Yelm is just as much their God as he is the God of the Raibanthi.
When Alkoth has ruled by itself or in an alliance with Terarir,
the Alkothian Emperor/Tyrant/Green King will have ruled in the
name of Yelm as well as Shargash IMO. The Emperor is in Raibanth
for the same reason that the Pope is in Rome. The Alkothian will
view the location of the Emperor in the same light as the Medieval
French viewed the Papal seat: It is far better to have him in
Avignon/Alkoth whenever possible.

>>Lastly I don't consider Yelm 'initiate' status to be solely noble
>>as it applies to citizens who join the Army.

>Uurk, but Yelm is a noble cult and a very small one at that (the last
>figures I saw were maybe 10-15,000 in the whole Empire - though these
>may be changed by Greg, they were fairly recent).

Yelm _Imperator_ is restricted to nobles and has always been. A
large segment of Yelm the Elder are non-nobles and there is no
prohibition for the lower ranks against accepting commoners. The
commoners in the lower ranks are seen however as initiates of
Hastatus, Sagittus or even Hyalor.

FWIW I don't feel the GOG/WW picture of the subcult of Yelm
Imperator as a joint Runelord/Priest is correct anymore in that
membership of the Imperator cult should be a mark of nobility.
Methinks the Imperator is the Rune Level of the subcult but such
is the scarcity of openings for Rune Level, most nobles pursue
other paths (like joining the army, becoming a healer etc).

[On beserking]

>Well it is of course because the appearances are totally different.
>Shargashi don't foam, they are in control, actually they are also
>possessed by Shargash and their movements are fluid, powerful and

>look like a dance.

Interestingly they are described by outsiders as beserks. The
Shargashi may see their trances as fluid, powerful dances but
the outsider sees things differently. Furthermore Orlanth is
thought by many to be a degenerate form of Shargash and the
fighting styles of the Orlanthi have been described as beserking.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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