More stuff

From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Sun 26 Jan 1997 - 12:10:24 EET


Joerg Baumgartner:
==================

>If I remember correctly, the Dara Happan liberation from EWF rule was
>achieved with Carmanian aid.

The Poor Wife's Son did the liberating. After becoming Emperor,
Antirius moved him to seek aid from the Carmanians.

>>So while Carmanian techniques were used some of the
>>time and were very helpful, they weren't used all of the time IMO.

>Then what techniques were used IYO?

The 'Every Man a Sun' philosophy was originally used which
undoubtedly used elements of the Poor Wife's Son Heroquest
(perhaps some kind of contest with the Dragon's human side?)
Due to the philosophy's difficulty, they experimented with
Carmanian ways before starting the Karsdevan Clarification.

The Karsdevanic Clarifications would have gone back to the
Old Dara Happan priestly magic. I think they would have
screwed up the EWF by performing lots and lots of rituals
which would have interfered with the EWF's contol over the
Dragons.

[Argentium Thi'rile]

>>Given that Khordavu was crowned nine years before Argentium Thi'rile
>>was fought, one wonders why that when the Horse Barbarians mustered,
>>they bypassed the Three Cities when crossing the Oslir to meet up in
>>Darjiin so they could destroy the World Council? Why didn't they try
>>and retake Dara Happa *first*?

>Because they had a notorious problem with taking fortified cities, and they
>swayed over the land in between as they wished. Thynk you for proving my
>point...

The Horse Nomads had access to siege engines (cf Kestinmodos's
daughter) and ballistas (the arrows that go through the walls)
yonks before Khordavu's time. Emperor Kerunebbe was renowned
for the number of walled cities that he captured and dewalled.
Emperor Kestinendos captured the Darjiinian Hill-forts during
his reign and Emperor Illadarga managed to break into Raibanth
despite severe opposition. Some 'notorious problem'!

Some other points for you to ponder: Why isn't the leader of
the Horse Nomads at Argentium Thi'rile *named*? Why when
faced by one of the hugest horse nomad armies, does Khordavu
muster his army against the Monster army?

>[Giants]

Me>>The Soulless child myth is not told by the Pelorian Blue Moon
>>Trolls.

>Right. So it must have come from someplace else, like the Eastern Rockwood
>giants.

Me>>Hence I don't trust the _implied_ chronology in [the Blue Moon Myth].

>Well, I haven't found any better chronology for the Blue Moon goddess of the
>Artmali, of whom we can be quite sure that she had undergone the soulless
>child myth. Give me anything better, and you can persuade me, but don't give
>me a "no" with no alternatives.

Umm. First you say the Soulless child myth is from the Eastern
Rockwoods then you transfer her to the Artmali? All I'm pointing
out is that the Artmali do not necessarily have to come long after
the War between Giants and Dragons which you initially said.

IMO the Blue People of Pamaltela originally worshipped something
else which vanished before the Sun fell. Hence their empire broke
up. When the Blue Moon rose into the sky, *after* the sunset,
Artmal drew the conclusion between his skin color and the Moon, and
decided that it was something worth worshipping. So he builds a
religion out of it and unifies Fonrit. His empire collapses after
he is maimed by Trolls and the Blue People turn to Jraktal.

What the original Blue religion was, I don't know, other than
boats were important in it (the Doraddi use elements of this
in their rituals and heroquests - like the Pithdarians). I
do not believe it was the Blue Moon. Rather Artmali transferred
elements of his old ways to the new planet. Hence I do not
see why we have to assume that the original Blue Empire postdates
the (human) Giants.

Stephen P Martin:
=================

[Gods Wall]

Me>>The Low 25 are the dieties of the West? I don't think so.

>But note the description -- "One [ray] blesses the Gods of the West."
>God_s_, which is plural.

The description is Plentonius's *interpretation* of the Gods Wall.
It is not necessarily what the original creators of the Gods Wall
had in mind! In any case, looking at the Wall itself, I see that
the rays only touch the first god of each 25. Thus I think it
is more likely that the rays are the Emperor blessing his Son,
his wife, his favoured ally and his chief servant.

[Malkioni Astronomy]

Me>>I don't see why the parentage of the names should really matter.
>>Medieval Christian had no problem in calling the planets by the
>>names of Roman Gods nor even naming the days of the week by
>>Saxon gods.

>Also very true. However, the Medeival Christians had thousands of years
>of celestial knowledge provided to them from the Middle East by way of
>Greece and Rome. Even given Greg's statement that some of the Malkioni
>star lore comes from Yuthuppa, I cannot believe that _all_ of it did, nor
>that it has not changed in 1600+ years, nor that stars which have
>appeared since that time would have been named in some other way.

The cults that have sprung up around the stars (Zrethius and Setum)
would have postdated the naming of the stars IMO. It would be a
simple matter for the Old Malkioni to see some local star rituals
and adapt it to form a cult under the name of their star IMO. This
would have occured during the Serpent King and God Learner phase
when the Malkioni fell to worshipping other gods.

        'These people worship the 'Pole Star' which is our
        Zrethus. We shall take their rituals and translate
        them into Seshnegi. These rituals shall be the bedrock
        of the the cult of Zrethus'.

When the Great Purges come, the cultic rituals are junked but
the name still remains.

>And, if the Brithini (for example) do not believe in gods, or acknowledge
>the saints, I wonder what _they_ would call them. Maybe they don't
>bother, or perhaps they simply number them.

The stars reappeared at such a time when the Exiled Malkioni had
landed in Seshnela IMO. Hence I think the Brithini and the
Seshnegi have different star names.

- --Peter Metcalfe

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