Yelmic cities

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Thu 30 Jan 1997 - 10:14:09 EET

David Cake:

Me>>Yelm the Youth *is* a laity stage.

> In rules terms, Yelm the Youth sacrifices POW - so its initiate
>status, even if it doesn't get all the customary benefits and obligations.

Likewise the initiates in the City God sacrifice POW but are virtually
lay members.

>And Yelm the Youth is strictly hereditary

So? Consider most forms of citizenship in ancient cities require
some form of descent from another citizen.

Me>>Also note that being resident in
>>a city and citizenship (which is a requirement for being a member of
>>the city cult) are not the same thing as I have pointed out to
>>David before.

> Absolutely - the majority of residents are not citizens, but mere
>commoners. And many of the remainder are Half-Citizen, Dekdari, who are
>basically Yelmics who are not rich enough to be real Yelmics

Commoners AFAIK have been used to refer to non-nobility. The
Half-citizens and members of the seventeen families are commoners.
Look at the list in Khordavu's time, the Dekdari are at the very

>But Half-Citizenship
>probably carries most of the status that Citizenship in other cities
>provides, including membership in the city god cult, and Yelm the Youth.

I disagree and feel Half-citizen is merely equivalent to a freedman
in Rome.

>But I think the commoners probably worship the city god as well - at least
>I don't think the city cults would be strong if they had only a small
>number of worshippers.

Not everybody who lives in Pavis is a member of the City God. Likewise
in GoG, Tondiji is stated to be the City God of an important state in
Fonrit and one of the biggest city gods in the universe. He rules a
Large City. His Temple is Great. He only has 3000 initiates. I
don't expect the Dara Happan City Gods to be much bigger proportionally.

Me>>Given that Yuthubars is also mentioned in the GRAY leads me to
>>believe that Yuthu founded the City and that Anaxial was a famous
>>Sailor-Emperor that ruled from it.

> err... what do you mean? The word Yuthu means god, Yuthubars means
>the Gods City, and is a completely separate place to Yuthuppa.
> Its not that the word Yuthu us not mentioned in GRoY because its
>Raibanth propaganda, its that the word Yuthu is mentioned, explained, and
>is not a proper name.

So Plentonius claims. He is stealing another cities mythology to
justify their subserviance to Raibanth. The real name for god
in Dara Happa is something like 'Ezel'. If Yuthu means God now,
then it was originally a proper name.

As for Yuthuppa being a seperate place from Yuthubars, I don't
believe so because Yuthu is very rare. Why wasn't the name
Yelmbars? Why did Murharzarm name Raibanth after his son
instead of after the Old City? These are things that don't make
sense in Plentonius's account. Now if Yuthubars was founded by
Yuthu which was later corrupted into Yuthuppa, things become
more understandable. Hence I have no problem with the Yuthuppans
calling their city god Yuthu.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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