more stuff

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Wed 19 Feb 1997 - 11:42:21 EET

David Weihe:

Me>> So
>> perhaps the original evil ruler was Erlandus or Ernaldus or even Ernanth.

>I thought that Erlandus was one of the local Orlanth variants from the time
>of the Broken Council. The language shifts are rather minor, after all.

He's not a local variant of Orlanth. the Erlandings were one of the
Great Barbarian Confederations to invade Peloria before the Great
Darkness and they apparently worshipped Vadrus (from Suvarian evidence).
If you mean Erlandus is a variant Storm Ancestor worshipped by one of
the myriad storm tribes in the Old Days then I'd agree with you,
but these Storm Ancestors are not variations on Orlanth. Rather Orlanth
is one of *many* that has survived to become dominant and all the others
have become minor gods or has-beens (such as Vingkot, Odayla, Vadrus etc).

>As a final refutation, anyone detested by Dara Happans can't be all bad,
>at least to an Orlanthi.

If that is so, why did 'Orlanth' kill him and marry his wife? He must
have been bad in Orlanthi eyes.

>Unless there is good evidence that Dragon Pass was created post-Dawn,
>I would say that Yelm (and/or various sons) is the best Original Evil
>Emperor. Whether the storm tribes actually *were* ever *ruled* by him is
>another question -- all that would be needed would be that tales drifted
>south, and then powerful Heroes and Godlings would drift north to
>investigate. The conflict would be inevitable.

Er, barbarians usually migrate because of loot and easy plunder to be
had and not because they have heard of an evil emperor to the north.
Their myths usually describe their own social origins using local
tribal politics rather than cosmological themes writ large.

Since the idea of freedom is central to the Orlanthi Clan and the
image of the Evil Emperor is a bugbear in their mythology, the Evil
Emperor Archetype must have originally been someone _local_ to Dragon
Pass IMO.

Brian K. Curley:

>What are the local terms for currency in Sartar prior to the Lunar

According to RQII, they were also known as Guilders. Since Sartar
set up the Cities with their guilds, this sounds appropiate.

David Dunham:

>Dragonewt (OK, the Dara Happan version just has the triangle).

I think it's thought to be the Dragonewts by modern Lunars - the
triangle shows up as a Mountain in the Entekosiad whereas Turos
and other volcano gods are not dragons.

Simon Phipp:

>No, no, no. The Jrusteli fanatics might say this, but this is not
>what sensible folk mean by the Monomyth. I am against saying that
>Ehilm is Yelm or that Humct is Humakt or that Shargash is Yelm. The
>Monomyth is *NOT* about equating all sun gods or all storm gods or
>all death gods. It is about identifying the common myths of the gods.

I'm sorry but identifying a solar god as being a face of Ehilm *is*
what the monomyth is about. That is what the average gloranthan
understands by monomyth and no sensible folk uses 'monomyth' in
glorantha as they all know it was an Evil God Learner Invention.

>Ralians worship Ehilm who holds the Purifying Fire of the Sun.

Ehilm is the impersonal Solar Disc (per Wyrms Footprints). The
Purifying Fire is an Orlanthi myth.

>These [sun gods] are not the same deity.

They are not the same cults but since these cults all worship the
Sun, they are the same diety. Or else we might be saying that
the Lunars and the Malkioni worship different Creators. Or was it
the Cosmic Dragon who created the World? How about Earthmaker?

>The Monomyth, in its purest form, is the detailing of the events that
>happened in the GodTime in a concise, unbiased way.

No, that is History. The God Learners were verbose and blinkered,
but they didn't care because they knew they were right.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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