From: Andrew Joelson (joelsona@cpdmfg.cig.mot.com)
Date: Fri 28 Feb 1997 - 16:17:13 EET

> But dieties _are_ world striding beings. The Block is where Storm
>Bull gave the Devil the Big Zot. <snip>

Martin Laurie:
> Prove it! You say Storm Bull blasted the Devil at the block - thats just
> how the locals explain the Block! It happens all the time in the RW.....

        Sigh. Go attend the rituals of the Storm Bull cult during any
Sacred Time and you will see it with your own eyes (if you are sufficiently
religeously enlightened). The God Plane is sufficiently divorced from the
mundane that it appears timeless to us. A Storm Khan can perform the same
ritual year after year, and see the same event over and over again. Sort
of like picking up a book several times and turning to the same page.

        Perhaps a short(ish) comment on 'religeously enlightened' is in
order. I can see that this could be easily misunderstood.
        It is my understanding that as one becomes more learned in cultic
lore, one becomes better able to see & intereact with the Gods & the God


Example: A bunch of Orlanthi are going to perform the ceremonial re-
enactment of Orlanth's Dance Contest vs Yelm. (This is important, as

even though Yelm was ruled the winner, it is the first time that Orlanth
was recognized by Yelm as an adult & a 'contender'. Perhaps this could
be varied slightly and used as an initiation ritual for boys becoming
        The best dancer amongst the acolytes gets tagged as Yelm (who's
supposed to win), a preist/lord gets the Orlanth role, and all the other
preparations are made. The clan/stead/ whatever gathers and watches the
        The children & initiates see a bunch of people dressed up in
costumes re-enacting one of the myths they all know. It's pretty, and
there is a generalized feeling that _something_ is happening. Call it
a general aura of magical/devine power. Nothing tremendous.
        An acolyte in the crowd sees and feels more. The devine aura
of Spirit Realm is plainly to be felt. What is more, to the acolyte
'Orlanth' is not Uncle-Harald-in-a-mask. He sees that Uncle Harald has
made contact with the spirit realm, and that Orlanth is imbuing Harald
with a portion of himself. The acolyte doesn't see a mask anymore, he
sees a taller man glowing with youth and strength; in short, he sees
Orlanth over-laying his priest.
        Uncle Harald himself feels the power/aura of Orlanth filling him.
He doesn't see an acolyte in a Yelm mask, he sees Yelm. He is projecting
himself partialy into the God Plane and is participating in the event
directly. Orlanth is also partialy projected into his priest. Uncle
Harald has become an avatar of Orlanth, however temporarily.

        I started playing RuneQuest as an adventuring sort of game;
different rules from D&D, but same sort of stuff. At that time, I could
not see why anyone would want to commit 90% time and income to a cult.
Later, I took the wargaming veiwpoint of the cults being where the
heavy duty magic was, so you get something for the time & money invested.
But when I went to RQ Con I, I came back with the understanding I have
tried to explain above. Glorantha is a world where the cults are integraly
part of the culture, not a D&D world where people go to the temple once
as season to pray, and when they need a cleric as a medic.
        This is where analogies to the Real World break down. My own
personal religeous beliefs would no doubt be a good deal less ambivalent
if I could see directly into the GodPlane several times a year....

        Hmmm, so much for a short comment. I'll try to keep the rest of this post

> Why aren't the Gods walking around now? The Orlanthi answer (85%
>accurate) is that the world changed and the GodPlane is no longer as closely
>connected to the mundane world as it used to be....Just as it did
>at the end of the 2nd age, when the GL's magic suddenly stopped working...

> Hmmm, this seems like a bit of a Deux ex machina to me - added to the fact
> that the Gods didn't walk around in the first age either, there seems to
> be a hole in this argument. <long snip>

        You are flying off on a tangent. The point of my statement was that
the world changed, at or around the Dawn. The GL example was just that, an

example; and only one of many possible. The world also changed in the 1st
Age, witness the Sunstop. Or the 'Age of Ignorance' when everyone forgets
how to read (KoS). The GL example was used only because it seemed the most
obvious and well known.

        Unfortunatley, Martin goes on to make more of the sweeping state-
ments that I deplore. I don't object to him using them in his Glorantha,
I object to him stating them as literal & universal truths that everybody
else should follow. One more example, and then I quit for the day; this
is getting much too long.

> ....This seems far more logical and cogent to me than to say the magic
> changed without explaining why.

        _I_ am not saying that the magic changed. I am repeating what _Greg_
said, "The world changed, their (the Godlearners) magic no longer worked."
This from RC Con II. Greg did _not_ explain what changed, that is part of
the mystery of the Secret of the Godlearners. Solve this puzzle on your
own, I freely admit to failure in this area.


PS Martin, if you really wnat me to answer the rest of your re-rebuttal,
  Email me & we'll take it private.

PPS Drink Orlanth-Cola


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