From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@toppoint.de)
Date: Wed 02 Apr 1997 - 20:31:00 EEST
Peter Metcalfe:
>>There is another Vingkotling tribe ruled by a son-in-law of
>>Vingkot by-named "the Rider", the Ogorvaltes under Ulanin the
>>Rider (roughly of the Quivini region). (I fear this might come
>>from an unpublished source...)
>But I fear that you have fallen into a trap of presuming that
>Ulanin rode a horse. There is a Hsunchen Bee Clan in the
>Quivin mountains
Actually a wasp tribe, and dire foe of the bee trolls of Dagori Inkarth.
However, there is no record of pygmy Orlanthi at any time.
>and Prax is just across the border.
But, as you said in a private message, not inhabited by beast riders yet.
I picture cattle in Glorantha mainly as the small version of the Galloway
Something the Hyalorings evidently did, since the Orlanthi ended up in
cattle, i.e. little bigger than a modern day Merino sheep. Unless they were
riding aurochses, any of these beasts could pass between the legs of an
Orlanthi standing on even ground. Except for cattle, he wouldn't even have
to lift his kilt.
possession of horses. (Though they used them for chariots, more likely than
for cavalry. Must have been before the invention of the stirrup.)
>>I admit that I am a fan of migration theories in the origin of peoples, but
>>to me the migration pattern of the Hyalorings is clear - out of Sacred Prax
>>into Vingkotling lands, and on into the Pelorian lowlands.
>Why do you think the Hyalorings are from Prax? They do not raise
They were excluded from the Praxian (post-Waha) cycle of life, for some
>cattle which is common to other main tribes but prefer to live of
>the flesh of their own horses (as well as hunting). They don't
>raid other peoples herds for cattle.
reason unknown to me. Hunters may use Peaceful Cut, and hunting and cattle
raids aren't that different in nature.
>They have a highly stratified social structure which is not found in Prax.
They apparently can afford it. Praxians have the stages of youth, warrior,
They venerate Horse-Eiritha by another name.
elder as well, with chief as option.
>[Vingkotlings]
>Me>>Now all I have to do is find out where the Cannibals and the Archers
>>>are...
>>Cannibals: go north-west, to YarGan.
>No. For starters, there are no Vingkotlings in Pelanda where
>YarGan ruled. Secondly Porscriptor the Cannibal 'married'
>Infithe. The Infithtelli lived in Aggar according to the
>Broken Council Guidebook. So if you're visiting Aggar and want
>to insult them, say 'please don't eat me'.
<g> You're right. But there are other cannibal customs in "Orlanthi"
societies, like the 47 guardians of the Shaker Priestess, or king Brangbane
of the Dinacoli (which tribe happens to have immigrated from south Peloria).
>>Archers: go south, to the Jorganostelli of Dragon Pass. Jorganos is the
>>Orlanthi hero of archery.
>Actually he's a son of Vingkot and a Twin of Infithe (I was thinking
>that he married into the Vingkotlings). Suprisingly he is *not*
>recorded among the tribes of the Heortlings.
You're quoting an incomplete source, it seems. I have seen a longer version
which has tribes attached to all children of Vingkot except the Second Son.
>However there are
>several new tribes of Heortlings and so from the location, the Tribe
>could have changed its name to the either the Gansavuli or the
>Orgovaltes.
Not so. The Jorganostelli are a Winter Tribe (Pelorian, Solar), the
Ogorvaltes are a Summer Tribe (Manirian, Storm).
The Gansavuli lived south of the Ogorvaltes, southern Heortland and almost
>Indigenous (like Virimakradda, Hazkartem and Kerunebbe). Why would
God Forgot, on that map I mentioned.
How can a scribe correctly spell a foreign ruler's name? Think Confucius for
Kung Fu Tse (in itself a transcript, too).
>Me>>Furthermore, the Saird Hyalorings effectively disappear after
>>>110 ST as a result of their expulsion from Saird and the
>>>subsequent extermination by Huradabba.
>>The vast grasslands of Pent (and the Redlands), and a renewed enmity with
>>the Praxians across the Snowline?
>I strongly doubt it. They would have to migrate through the
>Kestinlands to reach the Grasslands.
You underestimate the size of the Redlands. They reach almost as far south
>Also one would have to
as the Elf Sea, and go right to the foothills of the Troll Hills in the
Elder Wilds.
>wonder why the Kestineddi haven't colonized Pent if it was
>completely empty.
I said there were more, and different horsepeople there. Similar enough when
catastrophe hit.
>Ergo, I believe that the
>Pentans were in Pent since before the Great Darkness
Agreed.
>and that the Hyalorings came from there.
Not convinced.
>Considering that the Praxians didn't migrate to the area south
That is after the Chaos Wars. Before, they roamed Genert's Garden, which
ended in the Brown Elf forests northwest of the Troll Hills.
>I doubt that their hatred of the Pentans dates to before the
Then why were the Praxians so eager to fight their ancient enemies at
>Darkness. Rather it is a hatred incurred by the Pure Horse
>Tribe booting the Praxians out of Prax.
Argentium Thri'ile?
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