Gardeners and horses.

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Thu 03 Apr 1997 - 02:01:45 EEST

Chris Lemens:

>By Shanasse she birthed plants, Elder Sister, and an entity known as the

>Personnaly, I like the text better. The family tree looks like the work of
>a God Learner. I think the existence of an entity called "Gardener" has
>been Gregged, since it is not mentioned anywhere in RQ3 materials that I've
>seen. Perhaps this is yet another regional name for HKE/Yelmalio.

Note that the Aldryami word for Gardener is Gentre (in Elder Secrets).
Does this remind you of anyone?

Joerg Baumgartner:


[Ulanin the rider]

>>Furthermore Goats, Sheep and Bulls can be ridden.

>I picture cattle in Glorantha mainly as the small version of the Galloway
>cattle, i.e. little bigger than a modern day Merino sheep.

Why? As far as I'm concerned, they are ordinary sized cattle (and they
are ridden by the Lendarshi for example). How else is the avearge
gloranthan farmer going to get decent oxen to do the heavy work if the
only cattle he has are midgets?

>>And what is 'this sharing of the mounts' business?

>Something the Hyalorings evidently did, since the Orlanthi ended up in
>possession of horses.

Which could have been accomplished by simple theft or adoption
of refugee horse riders by the Elmali.

Me>>Why do you think the Hyalorings are from Prax? They do not raise
>>cattle which is common to other main tribes but prefer to live of
>>the flesh of their own horses (as well as hunting). They don't
>>raid other peoples herds for cattle.

>They were excluded from the Praxian (post-Waha) cycle of life, for some
>reason unknown to me. Hunters may use Peaceful Cut, and hunting and cattle
>raids aren't that different in nature.

The Horse Riders predate the Waha Beastrider culture. Peaceful
Cut is a technique known to every hunting culture in Glorantha.
Are you going to say that Pamaltelean hunters had contact with
the Praxians?

>>They venerate the Sun and Horses and not Eiritha.

>They venerate Horse-Eiritha by another name.

Hippoi, Arandayla/Reladiva and Gamara are not Eiritha. If they
were, then the Praxians would be eating horses without any problems.

>>Suprisingly [the Jorganostelli] is *not* recorded among the tribes of
>>the Heortlings.

>You're quoting an incomplete source, it seems. I have seen a longer version
>which has tribes attached to all children of Vingkot except the Second Son.

I said Heortling, not Vingkotling. The Jorganostelli are a
Vingkotling Tribe but they appear to have changed their name by Heort's
time. They are not listed in the Broken Council Guidebook or ToTRM#7.

>>Indigenous (like Virimakradda, Hazkartem and Kerunebbe). Why would
>>a foreign ruler want to adopt the speech of his slaves?

>How can a scribe correctly spell a foreign ruler's name? Think Confucius for
>Kung Fu Tse (in itself a transcript, too).

Quite easily. If you didn't know, Conficius's name was deliberately
latinized and his name can be spelt easily by a scribe (to wit, as you
have done above). Furthermore the language that the rulers use will
be the official language of correspondance, something which Kubilai
Khan and others ensured.

>>>[The Saird Hyalorings migrated to] The vast grasslands of Pent (and
>>>the Redlands), and a renewed enmity with the Praxians across the

>>I strongly doubt it. They would have to migrate through the
>>Kestinlands to reach the Grasslands.

>You underestimate the size of the Redlands. They reach almost as far south
>as the Elf Sea, and go right to the foothills of the Troll Hills in the
>Elder Wilds.

AFAIK the Southern Arcos River Valley are not considered part of the
Redlands. For the Hyalorings to get there, They would have to cross
Holay and either the Elf woods to the South or the Jord and Imther
Mountains. Both are hostile territory and less favoured than the
long circuitous route around the Hungry Plateau (which the Jenarong

>>Also one would have to
>>wonder why the Kestineddi haven't colonized Pent if it was
>>completely empty.

>I said there were more, and different horsepeople there. Similar enough when
>catastrophe hit.

How did they get to be _similar_ that the Hyalorings managed to
become dominant *if* they managed to reach Pent? The Galaninar

and the Pentans aren't. Couldn't it be that the Hyalorings came
from Pent?

>>Considering that the Praxians didn't migrate to the area south
>>of Pent until Arinstoli's time (ie during the second age),

>That is after the Chaos Wars. Before, they roamed Genert's Garden, which
>ended in the Brown Elf forests northwest of the Troll Hills.

AFAIK the proto-Praxians remained in Prax. Why would they need to
migrate any further if the land is so full of peace and plenty?

Me>>I doubt that their hatred of the Pentans dates to before the
>>Darkness. Rather it is a hatred incurred by the Pure Horse
>>Tribe booting the Praxians out of Prax.

>Then why were the Praxians so eager to fight their ancient enemies at
>Argentium Thri'ile?

Who says the Praxians thought the Horse Riders at Argentium Thri'ile
were their ancient enemies? And if they were so hated then why did
the Praxians appear on the battlefield on only the fourth day? Surely
they would have been raring for a chance to get those bastards on the
very first?

- --Peter Metcalfe


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