From: Alex Ferguson (abf@interzone.ucc.ie)
Date: Mon 07 Apr 1997 - 23:53:09 EEST

Chris Lemens wishes himself many happy returns -- belatedly seconded!

> I think [elves] say that restoring Flamal was the most
> important, followed by the Dawn. Flamal's resurrection was the _greater_
> bonus.

Well, if you'd said that Flamal's resurrection was too important for
the elves not to claim the credit for, I might have been more convinced,
rather than a backwards argument from the importance of the "accidental"
Dawn. I imagine, actually, that the importance of the Dawn varies by
elf type: for yellow elves it's an Ultra Big Deal, for brown elves
perhaps about as much so (could argue this one either way, I think),
whereas the greenies take a sort of macho pride in their darkness
exploits, rather than seeing it as purely a groom-and-doom thing.

> Alex also notes that the allegedly derivative Yelmalio cult does not have
> the Flamal/Dawn story. I think the human cult has it origins "immediately
> after" the IFWW battle. The SeedQuest was "long after" the battle. Their
> paths diverged before the completion of the SeedQuest.

Which "human cult" do you mean, exactly? Elmal? Antirius? It's
(allegedly) specifically _Yelmalio_ that is derivative, in some
unspecified way, and _it_ didn't come into being until about 1560.
If Yelfio and Yelmalio are so different in their mythologies as
you suggest, then it's hard to believe they have any significant
historical link. (Mind you, most theories about the origins of
Yelmalio seem to end up with this problem -- it's not at all clear
what, if any, substantial link there is.)

> I think that elves exposes to the Hill of Gold story would say that
> the idea of their version of Yelmalio being ambushed at the Hill of
> Gold is not foreign [...]

I think they'd say "Where the hell is this "Hill of Gold", anyway?",
for a start. (See earlier complaint about use of Hell Crack in outline
of Flamal myth.) But I do think the elves have some sort of "'Yelmalio'
gets beaten up in the Darkness by ZZ and other assorted nasties" type
myths, if you're using it in as general a sense as that.

> >It surely requires an amazing act of Doublethink to have
> >myths that the Protector figure is simultaneously Away Questing.

> I disagree. Elven forests are scattered all over the place, yet they all
> have the protector myths.

Yes, but these can be rationalised in any number of ways, such as the
ever-popular "Well, the _real_ HKE was here, don't know about those
other guys". How do you rationalise the Protector being both _right
here_, protecting the forest, and Alone in Hell, at the same time?
Or is that not what you're suggesting? I can only go by your apparent
adherence to the LBQ for the actual likely structure of the myth.

Perhaps what Chris is thinking of is something like the following (and if
not, I'll moot the notion myself): the HKE/Yelmalio/Vronkal figure(s)
remain in the Inner World, collecting and trying to restore Flamal's
physical body (or the collection of seeds he's been reduced into, or
whatever). Meanwhile, Flamal's spirit has gone to Hell/some aspect of the
elven afterlife/someplace metaphysical like that; similarly, the
Aldrya/Mrel(i)/Elder Sister types are similarly removed from the surface
world, either in the same "place", or in some related part of the Outer
World -- but of course, they're not dead, just "sleeping". Perhaps
these figures are able to act to "rescue" Flamal's spirit from the
underworld, and guide it back to meet up with the other "questers",
who've by now gathered his body. Details left purposefully vague, but
this seems a faintly plausible outline, at least.



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