More on Vinga, Slavery, Lunars

Date: Tue 06 May 1997 - 13:42:23 EEST

Glorantha Digest V4 #385, replies...

Nick Brooke, Cults of the Lunar Empire...

Thanks for that complete list! Most Cults I can work up in RQ3 basic
terms after reading about their mythology to some extant. Although I
know jack and diddley about many of these cults, they're a good starting
point for research. Thanks, Nick!

A general debate question - I've always been curious as to what Myths
exist about the Red Goddess before her shattering in the GodTime... What

was she like, where all the Moons the same moon, different aspects of
one Moon (as in some cultures the Many Sky Gods are but the many faces
of Yelm?) I'm also intrigued by that list of Sedenya, the Red Goddess's
GodTime name, from what I understand.

Which of these cults would be present in Dragon Pass, during the
occupation of Sartar? For my game, Id like to have them available. I
assume at the very least there would be 7 mothers priests abounding,
especially of Yanafal, Deezola to handle the magical work of conversion
and proselytyzing, Irripi Ontor to handle Admin work, etc. Perhaps
there would also be Red Goddess priestesses (setting up temples, working
to extend the glowline), Lunar Sorcerers (Straight Sorcerers who are
initiates into Lunar Cults... Perhaps Carmanians?) And hoplites in
special units who are initiated into special Lunar Hero Cults, Solar
Hoplites who want to get some revenge on the storm worshipping
barbarians who's God slew there's in God Time, as well as a motly
assortment of Mercenaries who are there to plunder the Pass. Please let
me know if I missed anything. ;)

In response to Nick's reply on Orlanthi Slavery -
Oh, quit your chortling, you Lunar ;) That's the pot calling the Kettle
Black. However, the CoP info was quite useful, and it now comes back to
mind (I'd convert to the Red Goddess for a copy of CoP!, Well, maybe ;)
Makes sense that the Orlanthi would have toned down slavery practices
(Criminals, debtors, indentured servants, persons who could not have
their ransoms paid by Kin, persons who could not pay Weregild in
exchange for taking a life, so had to serve the murdered's family,
replacing his or her loss of income, etc). It seems to me that the
vital difference between Sartarite slaves and the workers of the great
farms of Peloria is that slavery was not a concept tied to ethncity and

"blood" - For example, the children or Pelorian Slaves are slaves too,
while the children of Orlanthi slaves are adopted into the clan with
full rights. There seems to be some kind of 'blood price' concept here,

or at least a little bit. Please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong on
the concept of Pelorian slaves, or Orlanthi, for that matter.

In response to Nick's reply on Hero Stats...

The reason why I'm interested is because I want my PC's to meet a few of
these incredibly famous and fascinating personalities, before they
ascend to Godhood! ;) That's one of the themes in my 'Liberation of
Sartar' game that I'm planning.

Pam Carlson, on Vinga -

Well, whatever floats your boat. You see, I've always seen Orlanth as a
God who by his nature broke rules, including Gender ones. I can even
envision a funny story told at the fires where in order to sneak into
such and such God's castle, Orlanth and Eurmal dress up as gals,slip
into some Solar God's harem and make said God smitten with them. As

Eurmal makes off with the target of their scheme (Magick
Chalice/Weapon/Goddess/whatever) Orlanth in Drag gets the wig yanked off
his head and is exposed. He and Eurmal (still in Drag)fight a running
battle while being pursued by said God and henchmen, enraged at the
deception. Are there any stories like this? If not, I think I'll write
one! ;) "Orlanth and Eurmal steal the Cup of Dayzatar". Sounds like an

Back on subject, as for Vinga, I agree with Dave she serves best as a
sub-cult. It depends on your tastes. I saw Glorantha as a heroic
world, similar to what is read about in certain fantasy novels (which
are basically modern day Mythic Epics) Just because Greg may say it's a
certain way doesn't mean that Greg's Glorantha is the right Glorantha.
In any case, your Glorantha, with a seperate Vinga subcult, is as good
as mine. I'm also inclined to think that while in Dragon Pass as
establishes in my Glorantha, Vinga may be but a sub-cult, in other parts
of the Barbarian Belt she may have a full-blown subcult all her own. In
Female-dominated regions where Matriarchies rule, she may stand as the
local variant of Orlanth, standing at the side of her sister the Earth
Goddess, having overcome the female (or male?) Sun God and performing
the LBQ. Now, isn't that a kicker? I may create a small Barbarian
tribe for my Glorantha, for just that purpose! :)

Dave Dunham, on Magic in Greg's Glorantha (reply to Trent Smith)
I haven't peeked at Sandy's Sorcery rules or the RQ4 I got from Steve
Marsh's web site. Hm, Fatigue for Magic? Kinda makes sense, but then
the "more magic you cast, the weaker your defenses become" principle
gets bollixed. I like the idea of spells targeting not just POW or MP,
but other statistics (A Maliant's Sneeze spell targeting CON, frex.)
Perhaps each stat can have a temp and permanent rating, representing
damage by spells and such. I feel a big advantage of God Magic should
be that it is not fatiguing, since it's not your power that's moving the
winds, for example... It's Orlanth's or Molanni's or whoever deity's or
spirit's who's magic your using. For Batte and Sorcery Magic, it should
be tied somehow to fatigue. I see Sorcery as being the most taxing.
Perhaps for each MP used,the user loses 1 FP as well in RQ3.

On Orlanth and Freedom - Right on, Storm Brother! The peoples of the
Dragon Pass stand strong with their Ralian Brothers and sisters. I was
slowly being brainwashed by the Lunar Teachings. Thank you for saving
me from Chaos!

On Gloranthan Heroes - Yeah, supposedly, Jar-Eel was a looker.. ;)

On Heler/Elmal commanding the stead - That was a Wind Mistress who was
part of the Vinga cult giving a Yelornan the *real* skinny according to
her sub-cult. Elmal and Heler just *thought* they were in charge ;)
Seriously, I don't own KoS (but I plan to pick it up real soon), but as
with all Gloranthan Histories we must assume that the almighty Greg
writes from the point of view of whatever scribe transcribes the
histories. One with an male-centered point of view would have naturally
thought that only a man could rule Orlanth's stead in the God Time. Who
knows who's right? (Prepares Asbestos Rune-Armor for daring to question
Greg ;)

On Vinga Cult stats - Got a set of those for Pendragon Pass? or is it
just an add-on to the main Orlanth cult, like the 4 magic weapons are?

Thank you, everyone else, for your comments! Being on this list is like
being at an on-going "Glorantha Seminar". Always learning cool new

More speculations...

Orlanth vs the Red Goddess... More to it than it seems?

It's mentioned in some scattered sources that I'm aware of that the Red
Goddess was re-assembled from a shattered Goddess (perhaps the Blue
Moon?) who was destroyed during the God Time. It seems that the newly
re-borned Red Goddess has it in for the King of the Storm Gods, above
and beyond what she entails for other opposing Gods on territories she
conquers, which usually includes "marraige" or "adoption"... (ie -
"Healing") into the Lunar Pantheon. Why is this?

This is my thought, and from my supposition that (a) The Gods are
independent, aware, and powerful beings who exist independently of their
worshippers, and (b) that the Gods are not static, but act and interact
in the world through their only means of exercising free will... Through
their worshippers. I assume that the Red Goddess guides the lunar
expansion through her own Priests via Divination, dreams, portents, and
in some cases, direct communication. Also, Orlanth, Yelm, and the
Darkness deities all have their agendas. Humans and the other races are
not pawns in this scheme, but willing and co-equal partners, as without
worshippers, Gods are powerless to affect the world.

Now, back to the Orlanth-Red Goddess rivalry. In the Myths, Orlanth
slays Yelm with the sword Death, and sends him to the underworld. In
the Myths I've read on various Web Pages, supposedly during Godtime the
Red Moon (Sedenya) was shattered after traversing the underworld and
turning Blue (Lunar list members, correct me if I'm wrong.) Suppose if
she was one of the Gods killed by Orlanth? Perhaps,the Red Moon had
associations with Chaos, even back then, and was one of Yelm's Wives?
Now, this may be pie-in-the-sky speculating, but as Orlanth strikes down
Yelm with Death, Sedenya tries to interpose herself to save her beloved
Yelm, but she is also killed and shattered by the power of the Storm
God's blow. And, Orlanth, upon successful completion of the LBQ, agrees
to Yelm's resurrection, but makes it a point in the negotiations between
the Gods that Sedenya DOES NOT return, due to the corrupting chaos lies
she whispered to Yelm, which amongst other reasons caused Orlanth to
revolt. Thus, the Red Goddess holds a very personal reason for the
destruction of Orlanth, within Time. (Jumps into Asbestos Rune Bunker to
avoid flames ;)

More stuff... Our friend Argrath, and the Empire of the Wyrm's Friends,
in general. It seems to me that the EWF was always a kind of 'blind
spot' in Gloranthan Lore, at least to the sources available to me. What
was the nature of the Dragon Magic which was practiced in that period,
that it would make the people turn away from the Old Gods, like the
Lightbringers? Did in making his Draconic Pacts Argrath learn or
partake of this magic? (Boy, I *really* need to pick up a copy of KoS!)

What is the effecacy of the Draconic Revelations compared to the
Illumination of Nysalor (from which the Lunar Empire derives much of its
strength)? What relations philosophically did the Empire of the Wyrm's
Friends have to Kralorea and Godunya's Empire? Or Politically, for that
matter? If one wanted to approach this kind of stuff in RQ3 terms, how
would you go about doing it? Some weird form of Sorcery?

Final speculation/Debate question - Was Sheng Seleris Illuminated, or
just an Ass Kicker? And where is his spirit now? (Thats my e-mail, actually ;)


End of Glorantha Digest V4 #387

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