Oh, everything......

From: Paul Chapman (mercutio@btinternet.com)
Date: Mon 19 May 1997 - 22:54:19 EEST

<Star Trek warping sound as Paul de-lurks onto the digest again>

Hi everyone (especially Bertie!), I've come to throw my two clacks in about
a few of the recent matters. Can I say now that the
objectivity/subjectivity debate has been mostly 0Good Fun to read! I hope
we can have more of the same sort of thing!

Comments, in no particular order:-

Martin Dick, and the list of "did these really happen?" (Digest #410)

>I Fought We Won - Is this a universal myth or is it just First
>/God Learner mumbo jumbo?

From all I know & intuition besides, a big "YES" to this myth being (99%)
universal. IMO (and IGSO as of Convulsion 3D last summer) this is one of
the most 'important' Gloranthan myths.... it is found in some form in
nearly every Gloranthan culture, and what it represents is central to what
Glorantha is, how She works and what holds Her together. Arguably the LBQ
is an aspect of this mythic event; the two are certainly linked. It's also
one hell of a HeroQuest...

>Chaos - Is there such a thing, did great hordes of Chaos maraud across the
>sometime prior to 1 ST by the Theyalan calendar.

Chaos definitely exists... ask anyone! The hordes did, too, but this is
perhaps slightly less obvious.
Martin's other questions are less easy to answer, IMO, but my feelings on
the following are simply:-

The SunStop in Pamaltela - Dunno. Interesting question. Probably - an
Orlanthi "yes" to that.
The DragonKill War - Not universal AFAIK, centered in Dragon Pass for good
reasons. It happened, though.
The Gbaji/Nysalor battle - Happened pretty much as described.
The Dawn - <shrugs> An Orlanthi "Yes" again for this.
The Closing - Yes.
The Destruction of the Spike - Yes, something critical to Glorantha was
destroyed, by something known as "Change".
The Block - Do you wanna look underneath?! Something mean and nasty you
could call Wakboth is under there... a cosmic baddie, whether it is the
Real (TM) Wakboth is another matter, and even if it is I'm not convinced
even that much raw order would hold all his being there.

>So the overall question is I guess, are there any objective facts in the
>consensual schema of Glorantha?

My overall answer is clearly "Yes". I'm not convinced the above are very
good example of your point, though. Most of the debate revolves around
more mythical, more culturally-disputed myths/history. If a culture
doesn't mention something in it's myth then in most cases their myth
doesn't dispute the (historical) 'validity' of the other culture's myth -
frex the Block isn't explained by a lot of cultures, but that doesn't mean
Urox didn't have a tussle with Wakboth and that the big W isn't under the
Block, they just don't address it.

The Lunar-Hating Praxians - thanks for that, I laughed too. :-)

Trade values:-
>>Now things get real interesting when you work out the how grain/animals
>>equates to metals/coins if any body is interested let me know and I will
>>write up my notes.

"Me Too". ;-) Personally, I find this fascinating! Please post.

Mr. Trotsky's curved light rays:-
As far as I remember, the argument about curved light stated that light
obviously rises to the heavens, since everything in Glorantha returns to
its source and the light is upwards. We see by light rays coming out of
our eyes (I mean "Gloranthans see this way", please can we not have 1001
people telling me how RW sight works, I know this in explicit detail
already thanks!), the light rises upwards slightly as it travels out, thus
creating a horizon effect from the subjective viewpoint. From this I feel
that the horizon effect would be lesser as one got higher (looking down),
please don't ask me to back this up with trig. Also, perhaps those who are
very fire/sky attuned would exude stonger rays from their eyes that bent
less and thus be able to see further - this would account for, frex, the
Agimori strong eyesight.
        I will not attempt to justify any of this mathematically, I don't care to
apply real-world physical/mathematical laws to Glorantha, where Myth and
Magic are King (so to speak). It does sound good, though.
        BTW, Mr Trotsky, I'm curious (and unashamed) enough to want your
biography! Please mail to mercutio@btinternet.com.

Finally, the Objective/Subjective debate:-
>But what if I decide the objective nature of my Glorantha is to be

A nice soundbite from Pam... "my" Glorantha is maybe 70% this way too. All
the rest of this subject has/is being discussed at length by others. I
just wanted to register my vote.

More later...

Life and Death are One...



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