many topics

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Fri 30 May 1997 - 04:56:15 EEST

Sandy Petersen:

> Alex, Peter, Joerg: God Learners

I'm touched. I was hoping I would be an Illuminate but I guess that
I'm a God Learner posing as an Illuminate (or perhaps an Illuminate
posing as a God Learner).

Does that mean that we three know the Forbidden Secret?

Stephen Martin:

Me>>The Dragon Emperor Yanoor has ruled the
>>Land of Splendour. He is the Wisest Man on Glorantha and maintains
>>the magic which has kept his land unchanged throughout the Great

>Urr, what makes you think that the Empire of Kralorela is actually as
>ancient and all-encompassing as the Kralorelans claim? [...] I bring
>this up here, because [deletia] would imply that Yanoor is not in fact
>an all-wise and mucho-powerful guy -- he was very likely just the King of
>the Kralori Kingdom, one group of people among many, most of whom were

Which does not contradict what I said. The Kralori claim *now* that
the Land of Splendor is unchanged since the Golden Age and they are
probably wrong. But Yanoor could have made a similar claim when he
still lived and he would have been probably right *then*. The claim
is one of those things that survived untouched by the God Learners

In any event, the fact that Yanoor's kingdom was different from
the modern Land of Splendor does not alter the fact that he was
a powerful person. The concept of an Emperor seems to have
existed before the coming of the God Learners viz-a-viz the troll
dwarf alliance defeated at Warring Ford. I daresay the Exarch
worship of the Dragon Emperor is a remant of how things were done
before the God Learners came.

>>SIX LEGGED EMPIRE vs HON HOOLBIKTU: The Six Legged Empire is
>>[...] overthrown by a hero who leads an army of half-naked savages
>>wielding pointed sticks.

>How can you make such assumptions based on, from what I can tell, one
>sentence in print and two more sentences in unpublished material? We
>don't know _who_ or _what_ Hon Hoolbiktu raised against the Six-Legged
>Empire, or exactly what their level of technological expertise was.

Sandy has in the past spoken about Hon Hoolbiktu on the digest. He
was not a 'peaceful' hero (Andrew Joelson may be thinking of Elamle
- -ata who was) but raised armies against the Six-Legged Empire.

Jolar Writeup ToTRM#11

        'Military: [...] Jmijie wanderers with their incredible
        running speeds, were excellent excellent [sic - obviously
        the ToTRM proofreader should be soundly whipped for
        dereliction of duty] scouts in the ancient wars of Hon

Sandy Petersen Digest, Volume 1 #260:

: Of course, later historians were unable to explain the
:destruction of the technically advanced, magically significant Six
:Leggers at the hands of primitive horseless savages, so they
:explained Hon Hoolbiktu's victory as the natural result of the Six
:Legged's own moribund nature.

Elsewhere (I can't find the post), mention was made of Hon's
armies using Jmijie magics to act as elite foot units that
were faster than a charging horse.

>the time period, I would also suspect some kind of God Learner connection
>to this whole conflict as well.

There is. The Six Legged Empire was founded by 'sorcerers from the
north' who are probably related to the God Learners. The Sorcerers
are either the Fonritan Sorcerers of Kalabar or the God Learners in
charge of the Fleet that was destroyed by the Invisible Fleet in the
Koraru Bay in 1077 ST. I don't think the Kalabaran Sorcerers are
God Learners although they may have stolen some secrets from them.

>>GOD LEARNERS vs CLOSING: Zzabur unleashes a massive spell called
>>the Closing. Despite the combined intellectual power of the God
>>Learner Empire at its height, they are unable to counteract this
>>curse and so their Empire is shattered. Later the curse is
>>nullified by a two-bit sailor turned heroquestor.

>There is actually no proof, in Glorantha, that it was in fact "Zzabur"
>who "cast a spell" to cause the Closing.

Come now, the spell radiated out from Brithos. If it was the result
of a God Learner Abuse Cosmos spell, then I would have thought it
started in some place other than Brithos. And suggestions for it

being a curse on the Brithini are unlikely IMO given that the God
Learners would have been the only ones likely to have performed
such a curse, yet they were extremely suprised by it. In addition
the removal of Brithos and the Closing appear to be two separate

events according to the initial effects of the Closing.

>And the curse has _not_ been nullified, that is very specifically stated
>- -- it has merely been sidestepped, effectively giving the Dormal cult a
>monopoly on sea travel, though a few two-bit thieves stole the secret
>from him.

And why were the God Learners unable to sidestep/nullify/smidestep the
Closing? (My original point FWIW).

>>EWF vs DARA HAPPA: The EWF leads a massive army which conquers
>>the land of Dara Happa. Within a generation, the EWF ruler of
>>Peloria is assasinated and a blind man's son has somehow been
>>swept to power and is throwing the EWF back to Dragon Pass.

>Most of this is Dara Happan propaganda and/or myth -- you can't accept
>the _stories_ in The Fortunate Succession as gospel truth, unless you
>are Dara Happan.

I'm surprised really. The Draconic conquest of Peloria is a historic
fact considering the traditions of the numerous battles that took place
before the Dragons took over. If I can't take that as fact, then what
should I believe about the War between Arkat and Nysalor or Sheng
Seleris? Are they myths too?

>Note that other emperors have been left off the lists in the
>past, such as Wanthanelm the Cursed, and I think this is the case here --
>the Dara Happans didn't like the man who became the "Dragon Emperor", so
>they wrote him off the lists.

The Fortunate Succession includes Horse Riders, Spolites and Carmanian
Shahs as Emperors of Dara Happa so I fail to see why the Dragon Sun's
lack of inclusion in that Sainted List means that stories about his
foreign nature are invented.

>Pardon my RW ignorance, but what is/are the Jannisaries? I ask only
>because, if they are related in any way to trade, it may be the source of
>the name Issaries.

The Jannisaries were balkan christians taken from peasant villages at
an extremely young age (seven) and raised within the Sublime Porte's
Household as fanatical muslims and divorced from normal life (they were

forbidden to marry for example). They formed a crack corp of troops
that scared the europeans shitless. Later on the discipline of the
Jannissaries was relaxed (during the time of the thirteen spazmo
Sultans) and they eventual became a conservative clique before being
dissolved after failing to stop the Greek insurrection of 1820.

Considering there is a Jann in Fonrit, I'll leave people to decide
on what the state merchants of the Afadjann are called...

Hasni Mubarak:

>Does every god and goddess have a unique set of Runes?

No, generic gods have the same runes, ie the Hunter Gods supposedly
all have Death and Harmony in common. Yelmalio and Dayazatar both
have Light and Truth as their runes (although Dayzatar is what people
call the Truth Rune Holder). This is excluding concepts such as
minor association.

>If not, how do gods with matching runes get along?

By having different niches.

>Does the number of Runes associated with a particular god/goddess relate
>to that beings power?

The most runes I've ever seen is Pavis who has Earth, Stasis, Plant
and Man. Pavis is not very powerful. Hence I doubt that the more
runes one has, the more powerful a cult is.

Carolyn McKinney:

>Does anyone know if there is an official time (S.T.) when the Only Old One
>took regency over the Holy Country?

The Kingdom of Night claimed to be over fourty thousand generations
old during the Dawn Age. This really hinges on what the Uz mean by
generations. For instance, in Trollpak it is claimed that four
thousand generations seperate the I Fought We Won battle and the
Dawn yet other cultures record the length of the Great Darkness as
being less than this. It seems to me that the Uz 'generation' is
really something like a time period of a month.

>Was the Castle of Black Glass built in S.T, or did it rise out of the
>ground. . . Argan Argar's vehicle to the surface world?

Argan Argar had built a castle on the site of the Shadow Plateau.
It was destroyed when the People of Caladraland revolted against
his rule and caused a volcano to erupt there. Argran Argar sliced
off the top of the resulting mountain, thus creating a plateau
where his people could live. He then captured and enslaved the
God of the Caladralanders and forced him to built the marvellous
Castle of Black Glass. All this is a pre-Great Darkness event.

>Is there a corrolation between the OOO's rulership of Esrolia and the Year
>Sons human sacrifice practise? Without knowing much about it, it seems to
>be a Summer Husband, fertility festival.

I don't think the OOO was the victim. IMO the Year King would have
been fed *to* the OOO as the price for letting Esrola live.

Martin Dick:

>Pam mentioned the many attacks from the south as a justification for
>invading Dragon Pass, but a perusal of King Of Sartar and the Genertela
>box, seemed to indicate that the last invasion of peloria from the
>dragon pass area was the Empire of the Wyrms' Friends which is something
>like 600 years ago. Have I missed a major invasion?

The Battle of the Falling Hills took place in Holay in 1374 ST could
be considered an invasion of Peloria. The whole affair is extremely
murky considering that the Fortunate Succession makes no mention of
it *yet* the Tarshites claim the Emperor was killed.

- --Peter Metcalfe


End of Glorantha Digest V4 #437

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