Kill dem elves

From: James Frusetta (
Date: Sat 31 May 1997 - 03:23:59 EEST

Carolyn Kone (?) wrote:

> Now I'm really confused...Does it contradict some published/unpublished
> source to assume there *are* elves in the Troll Woods? My original
> motivation for putting elves in the Troll Woods was that it wasn't *always*
> the Troll Woods.

Well... I'd argue the trolls have been there since the Dawn, since
_Trollpak_ seems to show that the troll Shadowlands were once more
powerful then they are now (in the First and Third ages, at least.) So any
Elven population holding on for 17 centuries is perhaps improbable. (Elves
might have migrated in later, for some reason.)

> I wasn't trying to imply that trolls hate trees, but that they love them,
> and would love to gobble them all up
The troll communities that _Trollpak_ seems to describe are not set in the
middle of blasted wastes, where everything edible within a night's walk
has been nibbled down to the bedrock (e.g., the Redstone Caverns in
_Trollpak_. Plenty of plants there).

Why? 'Coz the _big_ trolls say "Don't eat this." The right to chop down
trees is probably controlled by the troll leaders, who preserve the forest
for their own reasons. Not just economic reasons as previously noted -- a
wise troll always eats someone else's food, because then he has a full
belly _and_ the food he already had. Keep those trees for times of _real_
crisis. I'll be the forest growth dramatically shrunk during the Gbaji
Wars when the trolls were hemmed in; then grew afterwards when the trolls
were raking in tribute and didn't need to eat their own trees.

And of course, the troll leaders want to make sure the trees are there for
_them_ to eat. So they keep the crummy trollkin from nibbling on them.

> against the Aldryami, who might stand a fair chance against the Uz in
> all-out warfare.(no?)
Nah. Surrounded by trolls; vastly outnumbered, at least during the First
and Third ages; lacking the protection of an Elf forest; without any
significant protectors; the Elves are doomed.

If I was a Kitori Troll that hated Elves, I'm not stymied by their "Hide
in the Tree Tops" strategy. My long-term response:
* Chop down any tree the Elves put a "building" in.
* Chop down any tree with a large number of elves in it (e.g., when
  they're at temple).

        Granted, I'm losing trees, but the Elves are going to be hit bad.
        Eventually the Elves will probably revert to temporary structures
        and a few heavily-defended temples; fine by me.
* Choke off any external support for the Elves.
* Hit any groves of special plants. The elves won't be able to grow their
  special armor, weapon, magic & etc. plants. They might try modifying
  trees, but I can either target such or count on the fact that the trees
  probably aren't as good as the original plant at making arrows, etc.
* Have the ZZers send in the Salamanders against high-elf areas (cut fire
  breaks to limit damage).
* Have the Orlanthi hit other trees with Lightning strikes. Create forest
  fires with lightning as useful.
* Call in OOO support (until he croaks). Namely, lobby for OOO troops
  to join mine in anti-elf campaigns.
* Slaughter isolated elves as needed.
* Use undead to limit your own casualties.
* Use Gorakiki-bee mercs to attack the tree-top elves from above. (I'm
  not sure what the Gorakiki situation is like in Kitoria, so I might
  have to bring in DakInk or ShaPlat outsiders).

* Raise special tree-eating bugs to assault the elves. (The trolls have
  had plent y of time to raise the same).
* Train my expendible trollkin to climb. Send waves of trollkin up the
  trees at night.
* Year after year, age after age of Darkness season campaigns, when the
  brown elves are sleeping. Target any tree that might foster green elves.
* Slaughter any tree with a dryad in it.
* Wipe out other species that Elves cohabit with (runners, etc.)

Now, in an elf forest I won't necessarily win because the elves have large
numbers of troops, forest allies and formidable magical defenses to even
things up. But this isn't an Elf Forest (it's the _Troll_ Woods), so the
Elves are at a major disadvantage. I won't win in a season or a year, but

after 1600 years?

> Rather than having the Uz slaughtering Aldryami all night, and the
> remaining Aldryami slaughtering Uz all day
Or the remaining Aldryami descending from the trees and being repelled and
slaughtered by the Human Kitori. (Which may have been one of the
motivations for the trolls and humans to cooperate in the first place:
kill elves.)

You argue that trolls and elves will put aside their ancient hatreds if
evenly matched (a claim that the history of Glorantha does not seem to
support, note). But they're not evenly matched. The trolls basically are
getting all their defensive advantages plus a fair number of offensive
ones while the elves have little going for them. Natch, the elves can
kiss their leafy butts goodbye. (Ho, ho, ho).

I could see limited Elf-Troll cooperation like you describe in the Elder
Wilds (when they're not locked in mortal combat) or Jrustela, may in
lesser lands, but outnumbered in the middle of a troll heartland the elves
are baked, roasted, fried, stewed, boiled and broiled. Mmmm-mmmm.


End of Glorantha Digest V4 #442

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