Saintly Yanoor, May-his-name-be-cursed, +++

From: Stephen Martin (
Date: Sat 31 May 1997 - 20:54:36 EEST

Nils Weinander <>
Kralorelan history

>Now this makes very good sense if you take into
>account Sandy's theory that Shang Hsa (may his name
>be cursed) had his third eye opened and turned into
>Saintly Yanoor. Yanoor then lost interest in the
>running of the empire and turned to contemplation
>and spiritual matters.

Now I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that Saintly Yanoor was killed
by the False Dragons Circle, and that Shang-hsa (MHNBC) was their
puppet-emperor. In other words, Yanoor died _before_ Shang-hsa (MHNBC)

came on the scene. So how could Shang-hsa (MHNBC) have _become_ Yanoor?

>Meaning that emperor Daruda was really a hsunchen
>invader of the dragon people who got assimilated
>into the Kralorelan society, the merged culture
>becoming the Kralorelan way?

Given the facts that 1) Kralorelans state they were not draconic at
        2) The dragon hsunchen people _were_ around at some point in the

pre-Time era, but are not in the Third Age
        and 3) The Path of Imminent Mastery is so obviously
dragon-hsunchen based as to barely need stating,

Yes, this seems exactly correct. In fact, I would state that the
formation of the Kralori Empire actually occurred _when_ Daruda, the
First Dragon Emperor, took the local human tribe of declining solarists
under his, er, wing. "Emperors" before that were actually the Divine
Emperor gods worshiped by the Kralori humans.

I would suggest that the "fact" that "Aether" and "Yelm" were the first
two Emperors is a God Learnerism, and that the names of these Celestial
beings were different before the FDR came in and changed the records --

why do you think Shang-hsa (MHNBC) burned all the books?

Joerg Baumgartner <>
God Learners on the list

>Must be, since the ones listed by Sandy all deny the Monomyth's truth to
>some extent. Seems that a God Learner has to deny being one... At least
>deny to be a God Learner, even in mind-set. Call me a Theyalan Council

And this is why you _are_ a God Learner. I used to deny being a God
Learner, until Charlie Krank pointed out to me that this _proved_ I was a
God Learner. I guess I was sort of illuminated at this point, because I
realized that he was right. I have never denied it again.

So, Joerg is proven to be a God Learner -- anyone else want to deny it?
("Kill them God Learners!" we hear chanted in the background).

I wonder -- since I no longer deny being a God Learner, does that mean
I'm not one any more? :) (Maria & Michael)
Citing Sources

>While i don't remember the details about this, i was under the
>that the consensus was that *citing* the sources one works from is A
>Thing, but that *sticking to* the sources is A Bad Thing. A fertile
>imagination is always better than any source, be they OOP or not.

This most definitely was _not_ the case. What I said was that I preferred
that people who answer questions, and post stats, state whether they were
made up by them, or were from a published source. I was flamed for, and
it may be because people thought I wanted only published sources, though
I said many times this was not the case. All I ever asked for was to
distinguish between their ideas and material, and the "official" stuff.

As _I_ recall, the upshot was that most of the people who chimed in did
NOT want to have to rely upon published sources, _especially_ if they
were out of print or were not mass market (i.e., Greg's recent writings
held less weight than RQ sources). Now, some of this may have been
personal, but some of it seemed sincere to me.

Why don't we take another poll -- who would like people to at least make
an effort to distinguish between their own ideas and material, and
someone else's?

Joerg on Esrolian Marriage

>>Without knowing much about it, it seems to
>>be a Summer Husband, fertility festival. Since Esrolia and Argan
>>marriage was the first Esrolian Marriage (I imagine),

>Not quite. She had Faralinthor before, and before that and through all
>later events Caladril as well (the Argan Argar myths in Troll Gods have
>situation where Lodril "does terrible burning things to Asrelia", which
>other people read "had hot sex with Esrolia", and where Argan Argar
>the land goddess). I don't know whether there was a storm husband
>Faralinthor and Argan Argar, but that is most likely.

Since Storm Bull is given as a Husband-Protector of Ernalda in some
places, I had always assumed that Storm Bull (or one of his sons, natch)
was a "Year-Husband" of Esrola at some point in the Darkness.

This may have been _before_ Faralinthor, actually -- the myth in RQC
about how Umath saw Esrola and Faralinthor together, and killed them, may
actually originally be that Storm Bull saw the two together, and overcome
with jealousy for his former wife, slew the two lovers.

As for other children of Argan Argar and Esrola (besides the Only Old
One), some of Greg's old notes for MOLAD mention a Black River which is
also their child. I don't recall which river it was, certainly not the

Kill dem elves

>The elves might not have to descend from the trees, but could loose a
>of arrows...I know we're not talking rainforest canopy here, but I can
>imagine their paths not crossing much. If the Aldryami avoid the
>and help keep the treetops lush & shady, what's the problem?

Though she may not have realized it, I think Carolyn has just given the
best argument _for_ the presence of elves in the Troll Woods. Trolls who
live in these woods presumably do not have big underground cave
complexes, at least so I imagine. They live within the shade of the trees
themselves, which are so dense that not even enough light gets through to
frighten the trollkin.

How else could the trolls manage this without the help of elves? Now, I
could accept these elves as troll slaves (like the elf in the Grubfarm,
in Trollpak/Into Uzdom), or I could accept that the original spirit of
peace between elves and trolls might still survive in this little,
isolated patch of forest.

Unless the trolls worship some sort of elf-troll half-breed hero?

BTW, "Unrecidivist" means something like "unrepentant", if I make my
Speak English roll.

MOB -- the bit about "worshipers" was a joke, since I know the debate has
been ongoing for years. My WordPerfect 6.1 spell-checker wants worshiper,
and rejects worshipper out of hand. Haven't tried other spell-checkers.
My "Webster's New Encyclopedic Dictionary" (a few years old) provides
both spelling as alternates.

Stepphen Martin
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions


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