Different Orlanths, archetypes, Elmal and stuff

From: Jeff Richard (jrichard@cnw.com)
Date: Sun 08 Jun 1997 - 05:39:11 EEST


Hurrah,

My personal e-mail account is working again! Just in time for some
procrastination. Remster, that constant scally-wag, accused humble me of
trying to jump-start that terrible objectivist-subjectivist debate and
wrote:
>Even Orlanatus and Walind are set against the Moon, at
>least according to Lunar Myths (The Icebreakers et al.)

The Icebreaker cult that keeps the once-terrible northern Pelorian winters
tame is not an anti-Orlanatus cult except in the most generic and vague of
terms. As for Walind, I'm afraid the Sylillan cult is basically a Ram god,
not an icy-glacier god any more - Walind of Sylilla is not identifiably
Valind of G:oG.

>Do you hold the view that the cosmological forces of Glorantha don't exist
as such, and
>the Moon VS Storm conflict only exists due to the desires of worshippers
>in certain parts of Generatela (ie - those Pelorians want to get back at
>the southern barbarians who have humiliated them so many times, so they
>literally invented a Goddess to do it?)

No I believe in an archetypical approach to Glorantha - since Greg
Stafford's myths seem so heavily influenced by Joseph Cambell, who was even
more influenced by Carl Jung, it makes sense that Glorantha has these
"archetypes" that are repeated so often in myth and history. Elements,
attitudes, social masks, etc., - all are opposed, linked, identified with
each other, whatnot in various cultures. The Moon is the enemy of the
Storm, the Moon is the Buddy of the Storm, doesn't really matter. All that
matters is that there is Moon and there is Storm, and folk try and draw
associations between them. Some associations seem to work better than
others - only the God Learners had the temerity to associate Fire and Water
in a positive way.

        
The President of the Egyptian Republic wrote:
        >However, I think that some of the "Pantheons" are necc. incomplete. For
        >instance, the entire Earth Pantheon doesn't ever exist independent. It
        >(AFIK) is allways tied in with another cult. (I.e. Storm or Solar) Am
        >I correct in this? How do others take it?

Earth pantheon? As a separate pantheon? Bah, humbug! Agricultural and
fertillity deities exist in all agricultural deist cultures.

The deceased leader of international communism (talk about distinguished
figures on this Digest) wrote:
>A world that uses magic in a technological way as you suggested is
>(naturally) a perfectly valid game setting. But it isn't Glorantha as
>described, it would be quite a different world IMO. Now, if that's how you
>like your game, more power to you. I can't say I'd be particularly keen on
>it, but then I wouldn't go for Jeff Richard's farmer campaigns either.
Well,
>maybe I'd give both options a try, but they don't appeal to me overmuch.

Trotsky, I'm hurt! :> Check out David Dunham's Korol Saga to get a flavor
of Taming of Dragon Pass. Finally this is something I was going to send
several weeks ago, but my personal server cut out. Now I can finally send
this bit about Elmal.

Nick Effingham wrote about Elmal -
>Yes, that's exactly what it is!!! Elmal has the backing of lots of other
>cults, Orlanth, Humakt, Hippoi, Vinga, Ernalda -- while in the beginning
>Yelmalio was on it's own, and to most intents and purposes still is.

The cult(s) of Elmal is well-integrated into Heortling society. For most
clans and tribes, Elmal is simply the Sun God - a trusty thane of Orlanth,
useful in certain circumstances. However, for some clans, Elmal is the
clan protector instead of Orlanth. For a handful of tribes, Elmal, not
Orlanth, is the local ruling diety (an example in my game is the old
Hyaloring Triarchy around Runegate). See - with Elmal you get variety,
with Yelmalio you just get the same gimpy god wherever you go. :>

I currently believe that El[e]mal[us] once was the premier ruler god for
the Winter Tribes of the Vingkotlings (Aggar, Tarsh, Saird, Holay). When
Heort revealed to his people that 1. the storm god, the war god and several
hero cults were actually the great god Orlanth and 2. this Orlanth was in
Hell on a quest to save Glorantha, the Heortlings created/learned the myth
that El[e]mal[us] was Orlanth's hearth-guard and not the actual ruler god.

>Therefore, when HeroQuesting to recover lost Fire Powers Elmal not only
has
>had more time (Yelmalio having only existed for five hundred years or so)
>but has more spiritual backing, so a large portion of worshippers belong
to
>his Fire Hero Cult.

Which Yelmalio? The elf Yelmalio is a fairly old cult, the Sun County
Yelmalio/Yamsur dates back to at least the Second Age, and the Monrough
cult of Yelmalio is very new.

> When Yelmalio split, they couldn't muster the support of the Fire Hero
Cult and so left without it. BTW, >Kuschile is, according to KoS,
orignially Elmalian, something not currently in my write up, sorry.

Absolutely. Kuschile and Hyalor are both known to the Elmal cult of
Runegate in the 1350s.

Anyways, enough for now.

Jeff

------------------------------

End of Glorantha Digest V4 #480
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