From: Alex Ferguson (abf@interzone.ucc.ie)
Date: Thu 19 Jun 1997 - 00:41:09 EEST
Michael Cule's caps key is working:
> THE GODS ARE REAL AS TOASTED CHEESE SANDWICHES!
Ah-hah! So what you're saying is, they're a Human Construct, a mere
_artifact_ of the Breville Cult?
> Would you care to state (would anybody who knows care to state) why Chaosium
> gave up on quantifiable Free Will. I think I could make it work.
This is mere surmise, but I think the short answer is that they gave
Firstly though, I assume that when Mike talks about a "quantifiable"
up on Free Will because they gave up on HeroQuest. Or at least, in
hindsight, now that they've given up on both, this might as well be
the case.
Free Will, he has in mind a single, numeric value. This, I think, is
what Chaosium "gave up on". The general concept has to be quantified in
_some_ form, I'd agree, otherwise we either have some which i) Doesn't
describe HeroQuesting, or ii) Isn't really a game mechanic. Or at
least, this is true of attempting to describe cultures who subscribe to
this idea of the gods and heroes having their will, freedom of action,
slice it how you wish, in some such way.
Now, why _I_ incline against a Free Will "stat" is because I don't think
Mike also says:
Is this really a difference of Kind though, or just one of Degree?
it describes at least this quasi-Theyalan POV in the best way. For
example, say I'm a Yelmalian, and I go on the Hill of Gold quest. Doing
so is likely to constrain my subsequent freedom of action, in several
ways, such as most obviously how I relate to Darkness (esp. ZZ), and to
Storm (esp. Orlanth). Principally this really just locks me into the
pattern of my religion further, since HoG is such a defining HQ for us
Y-heads. But it doesn't reduce, I believe, my "generic" free will; I
can still have either porridge or corn gruel for breakfast, according to
whim; my choice of pizza toppings is unimpaired; if I performed
_another_, unrelated HQ, such as one to hunt the Silver Fox, say, my
freedom to act therein isn't limited. But in the HoG HQ, and the parts
of my mundane and spiritual life it relates to, it certainly is. Among
other things, it means I can't do the same Quest again, at the same
"level"; I can still perform lesser, ritualistic versions; I can "up the
stakes", and perform a "deeper" version. I may be able to perform some
somewhat related Quest, but changing key elements. But that precise HQ
is a Done Deal, and it can't be Undone, or Redone.
> Well, I'd say that the gift-geas exchange is in fact a way of gaining
> HeroQuested powers without a) going on a HeroQuest or
Joining a religion, and participating in a Worship ceremony are both
small "heroquests" (in the broadest sense), and I think the same can
be said of gifts and geases.
For example, the reason I don't wear a left greave is because in my
initiation ceremony, I encountered a back-stabbing barbarian spirit who
wrenched the one I was wearing off, before I defeated it and went on to
encounter God, who blessed me with the ability to see in the dark.
> or b) sacrificing Free Will.
> You voluntarily accept restrictions to your Will so that your core
> capacity for making decisions doesn't fall. Note that your behaviour
> under the geas hasn't become mechanical: you can still go against the
> restriction but must accept the consequences if you do.
This is true, but the same may well be true of Will which has been
Humakti and Yelmalian geases may be atypical of these "HQ geasa";
"lost", "spent", or as Mike aptly put it, "Bound". Orlanthi don't think
precisely that Orlanth _can't_ act, just that if he does (other than in
the statutory prescribed ways), Extremely Bad Things happen. The cases
are roughly analogous, thought the "geasa" are altogether different.
the very fact they they're available to initiates without a "real"
HQ, whereas for most cults they're not, is probably an indication
that these are extermely ritualised and codified versions of the
corresponding Quest. You walk the Path, and barring a big flub,
you get the Gain and concomitant Pain. In a real, freeform, no-
holds-barred HQ, they might get dumped on you in any and all
permutations, depending most crucially on whether you Drink the
Elixier without ever having Left the Path, or Crash and Burn en route.
> Hmm, perhaps when your Free Will drops you can no longer alter your
> traits....
Or more specifically perhaps, limits how much they could change in the
Redundant disclaimer: I don't know if this jibes with what anyone else
"wrong" direction. Say, if my successful HoG quest means I need to
maintain a Valorous of 21 and an Honourable of 18, _forever_.
My Merciful, though, can still see-saw however much it likes, as can
my Chaste. (Just wait until I perform the Disciplining Unfaithful
Wives Quest, though.)
whomsoever thinks, much less Chaosium.
Willfully,
Alex.
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