From: Alex Ferguson (abf@interzone.ucc.ie)
Date: Mon 30 Jun 1997 - 01:23:22 EEST
Richard Melvin writes, in something of a non-reply reply to me:
> I'm working from the common theory that sacrificing for a rune-spell
> involves a mini-heroquest.
> Therefore, turning it around, a heroquest must be at least a bit like
> getting a rune spell [2].
And by the same logic, at least a bit like an initiation, a worship
ceremony, and accepting a gift and geas. So I don't think it's
necessarily entirely safe to balance too large a mountain of
hypothesis atop the molehill of rune magic game mechanics.
> Doing the 'normal' version of the quest
> first is probably a good idea as well, so you know what's what.
I think that depends on the nature of the "change" you want to make;
in some circumstances, you'd want to carefully avoid doing the "old"
thing, so as to obviate the risk of getting locked into it, when
attempting to do the new one. If for example I want to fight Orlanth
at the HoG, doing a preparatory quest where I am instead _armed_ by him
may well be counter-productive.
The problems with this strategy may be overcome, perhaps by i) doing the
second, extrapolative quest at a much "deeper" level; ii) having
performed some other quest in the meantime, in this case to "clarify"
the nature of my relationship to Orlanth; or iii) being Arkat.
> If all this works, the relevant myth changes _for the following groups
> of people_.
>
> - anyone who actually donated POW to the quest[5].
>
> - anyone you have some kind of magical soveriegnty over
> (e.g. Argrath's kingship of Dragon Pass).
>
> - anyone initiated by one of the above.
These sound to me like different "depths" of Quest (indeed, progressively
deeper). Perhaps not a distinction that's likely to come up in play
very much, in these instances, but I think that in general the more
people you want to make the HQ "real" for, the harder the corresponding
quest.
I'm also mildly trepidatious of the phrase "the relevant myth changes";
there's lots of potential fuzziness here about whether the change is
consensual or not, and how complete it is in terms of their continued
access to the old myth.
> Making direct real-world changes (e.g. moving a star) by heroquesting is
> not possible.
Not true, I don't think. Of course, in this example the change isn't
actually in the Inner World anyway, so it may not be the best example.
But descriptions of, for example, the sinking of Seshnela suggest that
the RW can indeed be directly altered by a HQer, while they're still
on the HP. If the change was of something that had no real
"correspondance" with the HP, such as trying to kill a non-HQing
mortal, say, then presumably you'd have to do it the mootly-distinct
indirect way.
In meta-reply to the same message, Ian Whitchurch said:
> At a minimum, you should know the "script" of the minor quest
> you are trying to change.
Absolutely! Whether or not you're trying to effect a change, trying to
perform _any_ HQ without knowing the myth and ritual in positively anal
detail is a short route to turn a nice "safe" re-enactment (or partly
so) HQ into a (even more) experimental one. See comments about
on-coming Italians in a Fiat Panda, "Zorak Zoran" special edition.
In most cases, if the change is truly premediated, you'll also have
researched some mythic precedent for the new elements, or better yet,
performed an independant Quest embodying them. Then you can try to
"graft them in", with some reasonable expectation of success.
I see it as being a bit like "see one, do one, teach one", in fact (to
steal a line from _e.r._). You participate in a myth firstly by hearing
it as a story, then by enacting it in a Worship ceremony (or potentially,
in your initiation). You later use the same myth in a "mini-HQ" to
obtain divine magic, or a gift and geas. Then maybe in a practice HQ,
and then later still, in a "real" HQ. Thereafter it gets harder to
distinguish distinct "levels", but probably (at least) "HeroQuester",
"Hero", "SuperHero" and "God" are all more-or-less successive steps that
could be identified.
Generally speaking, anyone attempting a given "depth" of HQ will have
been through all the previous ones, so should have at least that much of
an idea of what he's doing. Trouble is, at each step you start having
to get a bit more "original", even to "re-enact" a Quest at all. If
no-one has done the Full Lightbringer's Quest in your neck of the woods
for a generation, or a century, or an Age, then you're increasing going
to have to Make Stuff Up for the places where your oral and written
records, and your own past expierence of the HQ get a bit too vague to
be useful.
Of course, this Crisatunity works both ways; if you're "forced" to
make things up, it gives you the chance to "improve" on the precedent,
either in terms of the means, or the ends.
Originally,
Alex.
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