From: Alex Ferguson (abf@interzone.ucc.ie)
Date: Mon 30 Jun 1997 - 23:28:30 EEST
Stephen Martin says, of his not-quite-quarter days:
> Let me clarify -- The distance between Spring and Autumnal Equinoxes is
> 135 days on the summer "side" and 159 days on the winter "side".
Ah, I see.
> Spring and Autumn would likely be the same length of time.
No, see below.
> >Not sure I follow. You've just proposed that Summer and Spring
> I proposed nothing about Spring -- I proposed something about Summer.
I assumed by Summer you meant from summer "solstice" to autumnal
Spring: 67
So with a half-day tweak, that is, putting the equinoxes at midnight and
(Note this doesn't work as the DH seasonal calendar, though if we
> >are each almost two weeks shorter than Autumn and Winter;
equinox, and that spring would be from vernal equinox to summer
"solstice". After all, you'd just asserted what the quarter days were,
and that is the usual definition. Certainly none other was in evidence.
Given these, the seasons are of the following lengths:
Summer: 68
Autumn: 79
Winter: 80
mid-{summer|winter} at noon, or vice versa, or something to that effect,
then S/S and A/W each come out to be respectively equal. This may even
make sense, though I'll have to go think about it some more.
selectively ignore Greg, maybe it'd fly as the pre-Nysalor DH year...
Or failing which, as a Darkness thing from Yuthuppa.)
> > this doesn't tally at all with the 1.6 degree difference between
> > northward and southward tilt you propose later. A proportionate
> > difference would be a couple a days [...]
> And how can the appropriate difference be a couple of days?
A _proportionate_ difference would be 294 * 1.6/360. ~= 1.3 days.
> 10.6 / 9 = 1 1/6,
Now I see where you're coming from. The next question is, even
> That's how I figured the dates, anyways, if my math is faulty
I'm enough of a mathematician to tell you that 159/135 = 1.1777777...,
o That at the equinoxes, the sunpath is directly overhead
o Each successive day varies in length from the preceeding
How did I do?
[ES quote]
In at least one place in _each_ of ES and GRoY, it gives at least as
> No, the Dome rocks both north and south, though Nick's Starmaps program
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the ES model, given all the
> [Steve needs] a second major dome, one which tilts but does not
I'm all confused again... When you say "a second major dome", are you
> As for the relationship between the position of the Sunpath and the
Indeed so. This also raises the question of whether the sun has the
> But, for esthetic reasons, days should be longer in summer and
Perhaps I have too much of a high-latitude aesthetic, but I'd have
Slainte,
Which has no necessary correspondance to anything much either, mind you.
After all, almost all of earth has such a "tilt", and still experiences
equal Quarters.
> so the difference in lengths between equinoxes should be the same
given this ratio, how do you arrive at the absolute numbers?
The only pertinent fact I can think of is that Polaris is always
within the Upper Circle, which means the maximum swing would be
about 15 degrees, if the diagram on GRoY p80 is "to scale".
> please let a mathemetician or astronomer let me know.
not 1 1/6 ( = 1.1666666...), and enough of an astronomer to have a hard
time seeing how much of a (feasible) correspondance between "real"
celestial mechanics and Gloranthan ones there ought to be (not least as
establishing any observable facts is extremely slippery). Let me at
least try to determine what assumptions your calculation is based on.
I'm surmising:
(as if one was at earth's equator);
by an equal amount (not true of earth at all).
(2m7s (and a bit), trivia fans.)
> Clearly, the Dome rocks north of center, then back, then south, then
> back.
unequivocably that the midsummer sun passes directly overhead, so I
don't know why you think this is so "clear". (Unless Greg has made
another "clarification" of this, apparently contradicting his previous
one. To be fair to FGS, I don't know what he's said about this at any
stage, just the different assumptions made by his various Chief
Priests.)
> has it go to center at midsummer. This was an attempt, if I remember
> correctly, to justify having both summer and winter stars, impossible
> given the Elder Secrets model.
acknowleged inconsistencies therein. But I see what you mean about
the summer stars; are there any significant such, though? I'll
be sure to pore over the ES and GRoY lists later. (I know they're
alluded to collectively, I mean particular instances.)
> rotate. With this Dome in place, the dome again tilts both north and
> south of the center.
speaking of Buserian-style "horizon/underworld" lines on the "frame" (or
on the sky itself), or are you talking about some sort of "Crystal Dome"
required to account for the celestial mechanics of it all? (As in, a
crystal sphere with most of the bottom sawed off.) I can see the need
for the first, though not the second -- surely we're just talking about
a single Dome, with two components of motion? Multiple crystal
domes might make a suitably wacky Western theory, though... (and would
explain a south-only tilt too).
> length of day, as I said in my post there is none directly, since the
> distance the Sun travels is identical regardless of how far north or
> south the Sunpath is.
same apparent speed across the sky all day, or if speeds up near the
zenith in winter, and slows down in summer. (That almost made sense for
a moment, though it made my head hurt thinking about it.)
> shorter in winter, and having them correspond to the amount of
> tilt gives what I feel to be acceptable durations.
found greater variability to be more intuitive. Though, while Dara
Happa's a pretty "high latitude" place, I don't know if the length
of the days and nights are a pan-Gloranthan phenomenon. I suppose
they ought to be, if the sun rising and setting dead east and west
everywhere is (not Greg made his mind up about that).
Alex.
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