From: Richard Melvin (rmelvin@radm.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue 01 Jul 1997 - 01:47:35 EEST
Replies to a bunch of things:
Jane Williams correctly points out that I had misread King of
All I can say in my defense is that she may be historically correct, but
Sartar when I talked about Argrath's summoning of the dragon.
my version is mythically correct, and I'll only believe otherwise when
_she_ manages to summon a dragon...
Alex:
>If I read you right, you're saying that he (or _everybody_ in the
>temple?) has a Shield VIII up when he does the Sandals of Darkness
>quest, but not otherwise? I don't think I see the logic of that. Is
>there some instrinsic (or now-established) connection between Shield and
>this Quest, in a way embodied in the myth/Path, or is this just some sort
>of "saved position" he has in the quest?
>
Yes, everyone in his temple has that spell (and probably others, from
other people) cast on them when they reenact that myth[1].
>From the lost G*d L*****r book _Logic of Magic_:
- - Due to the lack of time-correlation in domains outside the Web,
any energy-induced change made in the otherworld does not dissipate
according to the above table [ref RQ sorcery duration table],
but instead lingers until actively opposed or countered, subject
only to gradual entropic decay.
- - The following equation [ommitted] is a formalisation of
the traditional Fifth Law of Thaumaturgy, namely that the same
quanta of psychic energy (trad. _mana point_) cannot be
simultaneously observable in two different locations.
- - All energy-induced otherworld changes are bound, to a greater
or lesser degree, into the cultural matrix of the primary
change agent (trad, _hero_). Consequently, they will only
be effective for others who share those affiliations.
- - Greater expenditure of energy can decrease the degree of
cultural affilation required, at the cost of greater stress
on the primary change agent.
In other words,
- Any spell (Shield XXXX, in this case) cast on
the heroplane has indefinite duration (as time on the
heroplane is a fuzzy concept, at best).
- - Rune spells can't be regained while still in effect, so casting
a spell on the heroplane means you won't get it back normally.
The entropic decay is a chaotic effect, so even when it the effect
is finally gone (which takes decades), you can't get the spell
back - the POW is just lost.
- - Linking up to the right version/portion of the heroplane to get
to use the pre-cast magic requires that you belong to the appropriate
species/culture/cult/temple/faction, according to the scale of the
original quest.
- - Larger-scale quests take more POW, and are more difficult.
This means that anyone doing the SandalQuest in the locally correct way
(which, I shall arbitrarily assume, has a bit where Kyger Litor spots
Orlanth making off with the sandals and clobbers him) has a much greater
chance of succeeding. Without the Shield XXXX, you have to take the full
force of KL's mace attack without any armor, and _then_ outrun her pet
hell-hounds.
On the other hand, if you decide to do a variant quest where you marry
KL and she gives you the sandals as a wedding present, then the shield
spell won't be much use, and you'll need to bring your own magic
(Erotocomatose Lucidity XVII[2] ?).
In a slight change of mind, I now think doing the above (at the right
depth?) will simply give the affected people the _option_ to do things
in the new way. For a while, questors can succeed on either path,
getting pretty much the same magic, but a very different relationship
with trolls.
This will naturally cause a lot of intra-temple conflict and politics,
as the pro- and anti-troll factions duke it out as to which myth is
right.
As spells cast on the hero-plane do fade gradually if not renewed every
sacred time (entropy and all that), it is unlikely that both sets of
myths will be 'maintained' at any single temple for long. So,
eventually, one faction usually wins, and the other will either concede
the point or go off and found its own temple/clan/whatever.
As a side-note, a sufficiently skilled quester (at dodge and/or seduce)
may be able to succeed without using any magic, and so needs no support
to pay for that magic. However, doing it this way doesn't make it any
easier for less-gifted people to do the same (but can give them ideas).
>This is POW sacking for some spell or effect, or more like a
>"blood transfusion to his future self"? You appear to imply the
>latter, but I'm struggling to see the game world intuition behind
>the mechanic.
>
Just POW sacking for rune spells - I'm assuming that POW sacked in this
way is not lost, but simply goes towards making up the rune-magic
equvalent of a shaman's fetch or sorceror's vessel (or whtever it's
called nowadays).
I guess the 'intuitive' effect I was looking for was the way in which
most people get less flexible as they get older, being bound by
decisions and choices they made earlier in life. The relevant cliche is
'I'm too old to change my ways'.
For an extreme example, see Dot Cotton in Eastenders (with apologies to
those who don't get to see that particular manifestation of the
heroplane).
>What's counterintuitive about the example is that
>it implies that a much-supported HQer like Argrath has far less
>free will than a freelancer like Harrek, while anecdote would
>lead one to believe the reverse. ("You say you rolled a critical
>on your Hate (Everything) Passion _again_, Harrek?")
>
I'm not sure about this - I thought Harrek was a misspelling of Conan,
and surely Conan is the definitive adolescent free-will power fantasy,
doing exactly what _he_ wants to do, with no responsibilities and no
parents^h^h^h gods to tell him what to do?
Sometime when I've got room in a post I must post the stats for Harrek,
Jar-Eel, Argrath and Ethilrist, as I think these represent the
'interesting cases' for any theory of heroes and free will.
>> There _is_ one way you could regain your free will. Cancel all your
>> magic cast on the hero-plane, and renounce all your powers.
>
>Precendent/motivation for being able to do this?
Cheesy comic books (e.g. Superman IV).
Richard
[1] Probably during the 'Arming of Orlanth' bit. This may be why
it's common to so many different myths - spells cast here may
take effect on all myths that start in this way.
[2] For anyone worrying about the massive amounts of stacked rune
magic all this uses, I'm not really suggesting this as
a balanced, playable system, just a model of the way things work.
If we could get agreement on that, coming up with a set of
usable rules becomes a small matter of game design.
This is also my excuse as to why this is on-topic on the
Glorantha digest.
Only two footnotes this time, so hopefully I've got the numbering right.
- --
Richard Melvin
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