From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Wed 02 Jul 1997 - 13:58:38 EEST
James Turner:
=============
Asks some questions about the Yelmalio debate. Bear in mind
that all this is IMO (and probably like to cause severe allergic
reactions for some readers):
> The origin of the cult seems to start when Elmali change their
>pratices after recognising Yelm. Most noteably the Eyetooth clan who
>brought in the antesmia statue (whatever that is!) so that they could
>cast sun spear. Presumably the rest of their magic still came from
>Elmal who didn't mind them
worshipping a foreign God.
Look at it this way. The Eyetooth have previously worshipped the
God Elmal who has given them 'blessings upon the earth, good barley
crops, healthy horses and winter protection'. They would like to
cast sunspear on their King. Their cult (*not* their god) can't
give them sunspear but they know that the Pelorian cult to the
Sun God can. Since the Sunspear comes from the Sun, it must be a
special magic of the Sun God which the Elmali have forgotten. Such
is the train of thought of the Eyetooth clan.
So the clan introduces elements of Pelorian Solar worship (ie the
Antesmia Statue) into their rituals in an attempt to get the
Sunspear. This probably costs a fortune and to obtain the Pelorian
help, they have to agree to a number of concessions. An example
of what the concessions could have been are: the Sun God is to be
called Yelm in the worship ceremonies and the Eyetooth clan have to
send annual gifts to the Temple of the Sun at Furthest.
Note the Sun God has not been changed by all this, he's still the Sun.
> Tarkalor then brought in the disgruntled Elmali to fight the
>Kitori. Why are they disgruntled?
Because they are being oppressed by conservative Orlanthi who
disliked the Elmali attempts to practice Pelorian customs.
This is especially true when those Pelorians happen to be a)
hostile and b) just across the border.
>After he won they founded The Sun
>Dome Temple, to worship who? They have deviated from Elmal at this
>point but Yelmalio doesn't fully exist as a cult and his name isn't
>known yet.
You are reading too much into the paragraph sequence. The writer
explains how the Dragon Pass Sun Dome Temple was founded and mentions
that Monrogh was its leader. He then launches into a digression
about Monrogh and what he did and concludes it by noting that he
established the temple, the construction of which was already
noted in the previous paragraph. So most of the events of Monrogh's
life including his discovery of Yelmalio have already happened
when the Temple was built.
> Monrogh has this vision at his initiation(which cult is he
>being initiated into?),
Monrogh was initiated into Elmal.
>[Monrogh] travels to the sun god to find the truth
>which was needed. He didn't know the name of the god he searched for
>but brought back Yelmalio.
> This last bit stumps me! I'm guessing that at this point that
>they are confused about having contradicting Elamli bits and Yelmie
>bits in their religion. Monrogh goes off to find the truth, I don't
>know what truth he was looking for but it sounds like an "Orlanth are
>you known as God X" type of quest which the digest agreed was
>impossible to answer.
Monrogh is looking for an answer to the religious problems that
beset his fellow Elmali (ie how to synthesize Pelorian Solar
customs with your Solar rites without seemingly going over to
the Pelorians and pissing off your fellow Orlanthi). This is
the 'truth which was needed'. IMO He went looking for *the*
Truth (ie What the Sun God is really like) but realised he was
trying to answer the wrong question.
> Lo and behold all their questions are answered when he comes
>back with the cult of Yelmalio, which they had accidently discovered by
>wanting to cast sun spear! Since the elves have known about him for
>ages it wasn't a sneaky trick by Monrogh either.
The (Elf) Yelmalio cult doesn't know Sunspear and don't build
Sun Dome Temples. The cult that Monrogh came back with was the
Sun Dome cult of Prax. This cult was called Yelmalio shortly
after it was introduced into Prax and any other names it had
died out. It also originated from Peloria but was not blatantly
Pelorian.
> Also what's the current stand on the Sun Dome in DP? Is it now
>officially an Elmali temple or is it still Yelmalio?
It is Yelmalio and always has been. The Elmali do not build
Sun Dome Temples.
David Cake:
===========
>> The Firebringer is the aspect of Eurmal when he is
>>worshipped with the other Lightbringers (and the other aspects of
>>his are firmly given the boot).
>Not only is the Seducer aspect spell the spell
>Eurmal grants to his associated lightbringers,
Only done in foppish Holy County temples IMO. I have severe
>but the seducer aspect is
[Puts on Traditionalist Grey Sage Beard and/or casts Lie]
reservations about whether the spell tamely doubles the APP
score but would aver that it is meant to confer an aura of
powerful sexual magnetism upon the caster. Given the prospenity
of Eurmal's spells to backfire, half the time the caster comes
out as an obnoxious creep or a petulant adult child. It must
be interesting sitting through the Lhankor Mhy conferences when
the lecturers resort to these spells or to stroll down to the
market...
>the one that Eurmal actually uses on the Lightbringer Quest, when he
>seduces Sinjota to allow Orlanth to kill her partner Kaldar.
Everybody knows that Kaldar was the only guardian at the gate.
Orlanth slew him and allowed the rest of the Lightbringers to
pass. Sinjota is a fairytale created by the lecherous drunks
to the Temple of United Eurmal who sought to glorify Eurmal
in every myth that he is in.
The real aspect of Eurmal Lightbringer as Everyone Knows is
given in p167 of KoS:
'ALONE IN HELL
If Orlanth has been cast into the pits, whatever
is left of him can be freed by the Trickster. It must
bring fire to him, and if it does that, then Orlanth can
escape using the light, and finding the Deeper Path.'
This may be the same aspect as the one noted by Jane's "when everyone
had been lost, he found them and brought them together again". OTOH
it could be the backfiring liar aspect "Orlanth's thataway..he he he...
D'OH!!" or even the backfiring dismembered aspect.
>>>Personally, I think few KL priestesses can join the cult of Arkat
>>>because being a Priestess and being a sorcerer (even an apprentice
>>>sorcerer) are both regarded as full time occupations.
Me>>This is simply an argument from the roolz.
> Rubbish. I simply think that Arkati only accept serious students,
>not hobbyists, even if they are priestesses. Not a rules argument, a social
>one.
C'mon! It's a secret society, not an august society of fulltime
sorcerers. Since when does the serious study of sorcery require
fulltime work? The apprentice slaves 90% of his time for his
master because he is an apprentice in the Hooman society of the
West and not because he studies sorcery. One can be an shopkeeper
by day and practice nefarious sorcery by night (although the Uz
would reverse the time periods).
The chief aim of the cult is to bring about the return of
>far away from cult centres of power, though, most Arkati are full
Arkat and/or the Dark Empire. Do you really think they
would turn down an application from a priestess just because
it requires full-time committment? That's like to saying
that the Bavarian Illuminanti turns down the US president
as an applicant because the presidency is a fulltime job.
>timers. [...] In Dagori Inkarth, uz join the cult because they want
>to become sorcerers (and they are accepted because the sorcerers
>want apprentices).
You're arguing from the roolz again. How are the Uz sorcerers
going to get their daily food trollkin if they work full time at
their sorcery? The Western Sorcerer is supported by his society
and is able to maintain a fulltime committment mixed in with his
religious work (which is usually the same thing). I strongly
doubt that the Pagan Sorcerer and the Arkati are able to give
their sorcery the same level of intensive study.
Furthermore I do not believe that the Uz are so materialistic as
to study sorcery for sorcery's sake. Arkat even in the remote
regions of Dagori Inkarth is still a Hero to be feared.
- --Peter Metcalfe
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