From: s.lucek@ic.ac.uk
Date: Wed 02 Jul 1997 - 17:29:09 EEST
Lunar occupation of Orlanthi
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Cake says...
> A better approach, rather than theorising about broad religious
>themes and values, is to look at the historical evidence. As has been
>repeated many many times, Tarsh etc. are proof by example that Lunars and
>Orlanthi can get along. The Orlanthi of Tarsh are not horribly oppressed
Certainly there is peace and prosperity in the Lunar provinces, there are NO
I imagine that the Lunar attitude to opponents religions in general is fairly
There is a problem with applying this position to Orlanth. At the fall of
bands of rabid anti Lunar Orlanthi, or heavy handed Lunar oppression, but this
does not necessarily mean that the Orlanthi religion is happily 'married' (i.e.
assimilated) to the Lunar pantheon. Just because things are peaceful and there
is co-operation between conqueror and conquered, that does not mean there is
much empathy. It is possible that the Orlanthi get on because they must, they
have no choice. Even in long conquered areas of the provinces, where Lunar
peace, prosperity and civilisation will have convinced the Orlanthi that the
Empire is not evil incarnate, it is still possible for there to be
irreconcilable differences between the two religions which results in gradual
conversion to Lunar gods rather than an assimilation of Orlanth into the Lunar
Pantheon.
ambivalent. As long as the rule of the Empire is accepted you can believe what
you want. I think this is supported by the the Lunar methods of conquest. They
do not say that their opponents beliefs are wrong, and the worship of the Red
Moon is the one true way, and try to destroy their enemies beliefs and gods.
Rather they examine their foes beliefs and use them to their advantage,
undermining opposition from within. Thus the religions of conquered territories
are assimilated into the Lunar way, as in the religions of the heartlands,
Dara-Happa, Caramania etc. I think this method of religious assimilation is
roughly analogous to the Roman conquest of Greece, say.
Whitewall the Lunars declare that the last Orlanthi city has fallen, and
Orlanth is defeated and dead. This does not seem just a little over
enthusiastic response by those involved in the conquest, the Emperor himself
announces celebrations over the whole of the Empire. As far as I know the
this not typical after a Lunar conquest. Why treat Orlanth differently? If
Orlanth had be assimilated into the Lunar way in the provinces, how do those
good Lunar 'almost citizens' react to hearing their god is dead? Perhaps one
reason (amongst many) for this celebration might be because the Lunars have had
trouble with 'marrying' Orlanth into their pantheon? Perhaps orthodox Orlanthi
see Orlanth as king of the gods, who does not accept any higher authority. For
me, the biggest thing the Lunars care about is their authority. If mythically
Orlanth does not accept the authority of the Red Moon, this weakens the
authority of the Red Emperor over Orlanthi. The Lunars are an 'enlightened'
lot, but their authority is non negotiable.
So I think the Lunarisation of the provinces is different from the heartlands.
The peace and prosperity of the Empire will encourage people to gradually
desert Orlanthi ways and accept Lunar ones. I think that an assimilation of
Orlanth into the Lunar pantheon can only be partially successful, and cannot be
achieved to the same degree as the religions of the heartlands. So once the
Lunars convince the Orlanthi that their ways are not bad and evil, the
advantages of the Lunar life would encourage religious conversion, rather than
some awkward assimilation of gods, in my view. I think this conversion method
of conquest is roughly analogous to the early Muslim conquests of Christian
lands, or of the Crusading conquests. If Lunar strength breaks down, if peace
and hence prosperity is shattered, then the advantages of the Lunar way are
lost and perhaps in the Orlanthi in the Lunar provinces might then remember
their ancient pride and freedoms. Of course the strength of this unrest will
vary across the provinces according to the degree of cultural assimilation.
I think the process of conversion is not very advanced in many regions. Tarsh
was not completely pacified until very recently (1580's ?) at the battle of
Grizzly peak. At this early stage of 'digesting' a conquest, the Lunars will
probably not care too much about winning the hearts and love of the masses.
Rather they will try to maintain strong grip by ensuring the conversion of
relatively few powerful people (who of course gain yet more power by their
conversion), a logical extension of their methods of conquest. Thus whilst
their grip is very strong, it is not stable, and in times of extremity
rebellion by the masses is a real danger.
Also my argument about the hero wars was not clearly stated. I regard the hero
wars to be a titanic, all encompassing conflict. There is some resonance for me
if the hero wars in central Genertala is represented by fundamental enmity
between Orlanthi and Lunar ways breaking out into a huge conflict. I fully
admit that this is a teleogical (and so rather personal) rather than causal
argument!
As I have said, my ideas on this are at an early stage, so are not very
entrenched, for me :) .
Stephen Lucek.
------------------------------
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #5
*********************************
To unsubscribe from the Glorantha Digest, send an "unsubscribe"
command to glorantha-digest-request@chaosium.com. Glorantha is a
Trademark of Chaosium Inc. With the exception of previously
copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this
digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to
copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to
archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.
WWW at http://rider.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 17:51:08 EEST