From: Peter Metcalfe (metcalph@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri 29 Aug 1997 - 19:37:25 EEST
Peter Hindman asks
>Can anyone point me to references on the distinctions between beast-
>men and hsunchen? There don't seem to be many deep references on
>beast-men; the most information I've seen is in stuff on scorpion
>men, who aren't necessarily representative. It seems as if (to go
>from the Bagog description) that beast-men are tied to both Beast
>and Man, while hsunchen are only tied to Beast, despite appearing and
>acting much more 'man'-like.
Hsunchen despite worshipping beast gods are more mannish than
the Beast People. A simple rule of the thumb is that any creature
which bears a resemblence to a human being (ie dwarves, trollkin,
orlanthi, orges) would be considered to be based on the man rune
by the God Learners. Although various sources imply the opposite
for some races (ie RQII speaks of Ores being tied to the chaos rune, and
giants to the disorder rune) they are still 'man-rune' races.
This is not to say that all 'man-rune' creatures are directly
descended from some archaic homonid (or denzien of the Monkey
City). Elves for example are probably mandrake roots that have
undergone selective breedings so that they look like humans for reasons
only known to Aldrya. Dwarves are reversed-engineered
imitations (and it shows IMHO) of the original humans by the
Ancient Mostali.
>I suppose the big question, mythically/ecologically speaking, is
>why Glorantha contains both types of beings in more or less the same
>regions and ecologies.
They aren't. The Beast people dwell in two regions: Kanthor's
Isles and the Beast valley where no Hsunchen live.
>The [Beast People and Hsunchen] clearly related (Bagog offers spells
>to gain a scorpion's carapace and claws) but not the same (Bagog
>doesn't offer Become Scorpion).
Bagog is seemingly related because she was originally a
>And while I'm at it, are dragonewts really just a kind of dragon
The situation is much more complicated. The Dragonewts of
divine scorpion who fell to chaos. But we do not know
what gods the *proper* beast people (centaurs, manticores,
minotaurs and satyrs but not broos or scorpion people)
worship or their mythology. The avaliable information -
that the Beast People worship Arachne Solara tells us
bugger-all. Hopefully the upcoming 'Book of Belintar'
will tell us more (although I shudder to think what
horrific relevation a la Elmal/Yelmalio can be contained
within it).
>hsunchen (probably not)? And does that make newtlings newt hsunchen
>based on a dragonewt rather than a human model?
Dragon Pass were never originally humans and have no relation
to the man rune. They are said to be cousins to the newtlings
and so it is my opinion that the dragonewts (of Dragon Pass)
are Newtlings who turned to worshipping Dragons and thus
became draconized in some remote age.
The Dragonewts of Ralios were originally Lizard-Hsunchen who
became Dragonewts in obscure circumstances when Nysalor was
born. In doing so they received help from neighbouring
dragonewts (who migrated from Dragon Pass).
The Kralori know of Dragonewts and claim descent from the
Dragon-People who appear to be dragon-hsunchen. The Kralori
are highly civilized humans, however. The local kralorelan
dragonewts are assumed to be the same as the Dragon Pass
dragonewts but I have my suspicions they are radically
different.
- --Peter Metcalfe
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