From: Stephen Martin (ilium@juno.com)
Date: Sun 07 Sep 1997 - 10:03:46 EEST
Some "rebuttals" to Peter Metcalfe this time.
>I think the Yranian leapers had special leaping magic and
>were followers of the Red Moon which was newly risen. They
>came from Faladje which is in the civilized heartlands of
>Fonrit and somewhat unlikely to have undiscovered creatures
>wandering around...
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the Yranian Leapers were
around before the 1300's, that is just the first mention of them in the
Glorantha history.
Peter Metcalfe On Teleos
>1) The many races of Teleos hate each other but cannot reproduce
Specific mention is made a number of times that the Teleosians "have no
without >the aid of each other (ie a purple never begets another purple
but a person of >another colour). If the tribe of greens starts getting
wiped out then the every >other tribe will start begetting greens.
history of warring against each other, despite all their complaints."
And I think Peter's choice of wording is poor, it makes it sound like two
Reds cannot mate with each other!
>2) This colour situation appeared to have occured as a result of the
Closing >(prior to this the people seem to have been normal kralori stock
and related to >the Teshnans) but the details are obscure.
Nothing in the write-up says or even implies this:
"History: during the Second Age notorious pirates operated out of Teleos.
Plus, the write-up makes them of Agimori stock, not Kralorelan. Because
Their mythology is so much more interesting if they are allowed to always
When the current tribe was defeated by the God Learner fleet and forced
to pay tribute, another tribe picked up the effort..."
of this, I made a link to Pamalt in one of their myths.
have been of many colors, rather than changing color for some reason
during the Closing.
>3) They are rapacious pirates and they used to be an important state in
The implication of the write-up is that they _were_ notorious pirates
the >God Learner Empire (mainly because of their piratical naval fleet
which was >probably used against naval enemies of the God Learners).
(and are not nowadays). Rather than being used as such by the God
Learners, they forced the G-Ls to expend much in the way of manpower to
keep them off the seas. And in this they were never fully successful:
"...the Jrusteli, who never controlled more than five of the island's
tribes at a time, and usually fewer."
The write-up states that in the Second Age the Teleosians used Maslo
catamarans and Haragalan tallships, implying a link between Teleos and
some of the foreign powers who were opposed to the God Learners. Implies
it to me, anyways.
>4) Since the Closing, their material civilization seems to have taking
a >massive pounding and the whole place is overgrown with jungle. There
might >be hidden wonders in the ruins but I think the tribes of Teleos
occupy these
>sites and loot them to trade with the Kralori and Flanchi Traders in
Teleos for >weapons.
I think the place has _always_ been a jungle. Since the native yellow
elves have been there since before Time, the jungle must have always been
jungle, or at least largely jungle. The Teleosians, even when they were
pirates, never had a high level of culture, IMO.
I agree on the subject of ruins, supposing that each tribal area has at
I don't think these ruins date from the Second Age "civilization" of the
least one major ruin. Of course, the ruin's name should imply a different
color than the tribe who inhabits the area. Thus, we could have the
Emerald Ruin in the Yellow tribal area, Lilac Hill in the Red area, etc.
Teleosians, but from pre-Time.
>5) They have some obscure close relationship with the dragonewts of the
isle. > IMO they get the 'newts eggs from the nest and mutilate them so
they will >function as beasts of burden.
The write-up has a slight implication otherwise. My belief is that the
Also, I find it hard to believe that any group of people could survive to
dragonewts there are very similar to those in other parts of the world,
and that they are more or less incomprehensible to the Teleosians. It is
interesting to note that the Teleosians classify all life as the Teleos
tribes or "Igalo Olagi", which means "Other Life": "Only the dragonewts
are neither part of Other Life nor of the Teleos tribes." Doesn't sound
like beasts of burden to me.
so mutilate and dominate dragonewts. The only similar event in Gloranthan
history is the Dragonkill.
>Thus the Teleosans will have minature
As stated above, the Teleosians do not war among themselves, and until
>dinosaurs of which the largest are able to be ridden. Thus they have
minature >brontosaurs for transport, minute tricerotops as armoured
cavalry, >pterodactyls for air warfare and the like. Leading
personalities will have true >dinosaurs to ride but these are rare.
recently had no outsiders to war against. Thus I see no need for all of
these miniature dinosaurs. Can't we have at least one Gloranthan land
which is not populated by dinosaurs?!?!?!
>6) How the dragonewts react to this is unknown but I think they are
dependant >on the Teleosans for something.
In my myths, I have the Primal Dragonewt saved by Teleos the Founder.
Thus, he and all his descendants are obligated and indebted to the
Teleosians, until they can pay off the debt and be freed. As they have
not had opportunity to save the lives of all of the Teleosians, they are
still around. But I don't think there is much interaction. And I don't
think they hunt the Teleosians, for that reason.
>Perhaps if they have no Dragonet ruler, they must eat dead human
corpses >for some alien inhuman magic of their own. Most Teleosans will
send their >dead to the 'newts for some eggs in exchange as a sort of
funerary custom. I >think a few teleosan tribes are attempting to gain
real power by capturing >members of opposing tribes and sending them to
the 'newts to be eaten. >Sooner of later, some of them might think of
preying upon foreign shipping or >even foreign shores for their corpses
and then the shit hits the fan...
Again, with no history of aggression (ritual combat is the closest thing
they've got, and the write-up implies this is mostly within a tribe, not
between tribes.
Simon Bray on Teleos
I like your description of the Child Trade Meeting Ground. The Teleosians
view this as the center of the world (to them, it is the world which
moved, not Teleos).
I am still trying to decide whether or not I like The Place of Big Silver
Hats. That will take some time to digest.
The modern trading spots:
Garlic Place: trading port among Yellows (Maslo origin)
Iskisdar (no translation given): trading port among Blues (Haragalan
origin)
Pearl Lovers House: trading port among Greens (Angazabo origin)
Where in the Hell is Angazabo?
Place of Cloth Trading: trading port among Purples ("now ruled by refugee
sailors from Kumanku")
Ship Inlet: trading port among Reds (Kralorelan origin)
Threats and Milk Place: trading port among Oranges (Haragalan origin)
The write-up specifies that the dragonewts do not have an Inhuman King
Teleos religion is indeed shamanic. In the Windless Season they worship
local animal, plant, and landmark spirits. In the Typhoon Season they
practice Ancestor Worship.
Most of Simon's other statements agree with the write-up -- he has a good
A final note: the write-up has the population of the Teleosians as
memory.
ranging from about 85,000 to 170,000 people in each tribe, about 695,000
total. Plus another 15,000 dragonewts and 50,000 yellow elves. It also
lists 5,000 "Other", though I have no clue what these other 5,000
intelligent denizens are. Monkeys, anyone?
Sorry this has been so long, but Teleos is one of my favorite places in
all of Glorantha. Don't ask me why.
Stephen Martin
ilium@juno.com
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The Book of Drastic Resolutions
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