From: Richard, Jeff (Jeff.Richard@metrokc.gov)
Date: Tue 23 Sep 1997 - 19:59:54 EEST
Chris Bell writes:
>As a relativistic objectivist, I personally prefer the notion that the tales
that >comedown to us from the Greater Darkness are more or less True,
as I dislike the >Gods as impersonal forces (takes all the fun out of
it ;) But from a God-Learnerish >point of view, this makes perfect
sense. Also, according to the canon, the current
>Gloranthan pantheons we may know could all just simply be mostly god-learner
>constructs :)
Interesting. The question I have is what takes do you know of that have
been transmitted unchanged from the Greater Darkness. Even, the
Lightbringers' Quest was assembled from a myraid of Heortling tribal
secrets by Harmast - some four centuries after the Dawn. Previous to
that, the myth was more along the lines of "Orlanth and his companions
traveled to the Land of the Dead".
Furthermore, VERY few of the Gloranthan pantheons that we know of are
god-learner constructs. Certainly not the Orlanthi, whose pantheon was
well-defined in the First Age and whose heartlands are north of Kerofin
- - far removed from god-learner meddling.
Gloranthan myth alludes to Gloranthan secrets. There are cosmological
>Regardless of what side you take (Obj or Sub), IMO while Arkat developed
truths in Glorantha - but they are not narrated by the myths, but rather
alluded to. The Lightbringers' Quest reveals a genuine cosmological
truth about Glorantha, but it does not provide the only path for
revealing that truth. Same thing with the mysteries of the Second Son
or Shargash's Enclosure. This is not the same thing as saying "whatever
you believe is true" but it is also not the same as saying "Cults of
Prax is true".
>the HeroQuesting skills that enabled him to defeat Gbaji, I disagree with the
>notion that Arkat was capable of the kind of manipulation you describe. We
don't
>really see this kind of manipulation until the God Learners appeared.
Arkat didn't manipulate Humath - he revealed new secrets of Humath and
showed that Death is not solely the agent of Storm. This is assuredly
true and his Humathi followers recognized that Arkat's mysteries of
Humath or Humath-Arkat were deeper and greater than their old mysteries.
Arkat, that wacky but respectful fanatic he was, had a knack at
discovering new secrets in old beliefs.
>Arkat was always able to Quest into Myth to gain powers and tools, but he was
>not the changer, but the changed, in most cases (except for the
changes of death >and destruction he wrought upon Gbaji and his
followers.)
This presumes that Arkat wasn't Gbaji or that Gbaji was a single entity
rather than an adjective that applies to Arkat and Nysalor with equal
relevance depending on perspective. Further, the mere acknowledgement
that a foreigner Western Knight knew the great mysteries of Humath
changes the cult of Humath. Acknowledging this foreigner as the Son of
Humath is definitely going to have ramifications on more than just the
foreigner.
>One area where perhaps we can find common ground is that HeroQuesting and
>God Learner style manipulation do not truly change the nature of the Gods,
but
>merely our perception of them :)
I think the fallacy is focusing on the various tales and myths of the
Gloranthan gods, heroes, spirits, or whatever as being more important
than the mysteries that they allude to and help reveal.
Jeff
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