Re: loskalmi justice

From: Frank Rafaelsen (rafael@nvg.ntnu.no)
Date: Wed 01 Oct 1997 - 18:27:46 EEST


> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:14:29 +0100
> From: Sergio Mascarenhas <sermasalmeida@mail.telepac.pt>
>
> Frank Rafaelsen on Loskalmi Justice:
> First question: the system you described never worked in RW, why would =
> it work in Glorantha? Or is it the philosophy behind Loskalm's justice =
> system, a philosophy that only sees imperfect implementation?

In the RW these reforms were put aside in favour of the prison system. The
reasons for this might be many, but Focault seem to indicate that prisons
were much more efficient from a disciplination point of view. The goal of
the loskalmi system is to create autonomious members of society, while
Focault would claim that the goal of the prison is to make criminals of
people to better be able to discipline them. Disciplination is according
to him the art of making people more efficient the more servile they are,
and the other way around.

But this is hardly interesting on the glorantha digest. Email me if you
have more questions, or think this is utterly outrageuous :)

> Second question: Your system seems designed with the Loskalmi citizen in =
> mind. What about foreigners?

This is a good question. But I belive banishment would be appropriate.
Maybe The Kingdom of Loskalm uses Sog City to get rid of foreign
criminals. Creating a sort of "Escape from LA" situation. They should
have the necesary manpower to prevent the criminals from returning. The
problem with this is the well known pilgrimage sites within the city, but
this is the stuff MGF is made of :)
Another good dumping point for foreigners would be Junora. Junora is not a
cozy place in my campaign (1624 ST).

> Third question: Your system can easely lead to social engineering =
> (remember Kubrik's Mechanical Orange movie). Does it happen?

Oh yes! The treatment of the perfecti is a good example of this. I guess
the punishment for them is serving in churches across the kingdom (under
the watchfull eye of the Watchdog Society of course). But in my campaign
this isn't done very often on good upstanding cityzen(TM). There is no
need to.

> Fourth question: a critical difference between Glorantha and our RW is =
> magic. I suppose that in such a system you could easely develop spells =
> to condition peoples behavior that could substitute for our RW poenas. =
> What do you think about it?

Yes you could do that (just watch the lunars :), and you could argue that
it was exactly what King Siglat did. Now there is a heretical thought! But
generally I don't think it would be magic in the form of spells as we
think of them. If this is done it would be through HQ magics by people on
the scale of St Siglat. The manpower needed to controll people
through spells would be enormous. I think the lords of loskalm really want
to do the right thing, and such spells would offend their self-image very
much. But if the need is great enough, they'll do it for the good of the
people. But why bother if you convince the people that you are right :)

> General comment - if you answer 'yes' to question one, three and four, =
> you get the kind of situation where a regime based on an igualitarian =
> and freedom ideology turns to opression and persecution of those it was =
> supposed to enlighten. Plenty of RW examples this century.

This is a very interesting problem, and the focus of my campaign. Is it
possible to have an successfull idealistic state, or will it degenerate
into a totalitarian state (if it is not one already)

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