From: Stephen Martin (ilium@juno.com)
Date: Sat 08 Nov 1997 - 23:34:58 EET
To Nick:
I humbly withdraw my objection to "picturesque", as long as Elizabeth
Taylor gets to be either the High Queen or, more likely, the Hag holding
the knife.
>As often happens, saying that all that is interesting about Glorantha
>occurs on the Hero Plane *does* have the downside of leaving everyone
>else out of all the significant action and experience. What does an
>ordinary Esrolite do on the first day of the ToMoLaD? Does she even
>know one is happening? Does she rush to the Temple and start taking
>part in an (impromptu?) ritual? If she is a Priestess, does she also
>represent her Deity if any importunate HeroQuesting contestants should
>happen past? Do initiates attend the Temple and perceive what's going
>on, or are they completely in the dark until the end of the ceremony?
Since all of the sources have indicated that the participants wake up in
Which does beg the question of how all those outsiders in Sartar flocked
a magical Holy Country that "morning", and normal time is "suspended"
until the Contest is over, I would have to say that few of the normal
people can observe most of the actions. I would imagine the Six Magical
Leaders and Six Temporal Leaders are able to watch the action (and
probably have to, as divine Witnesses), but beyond that most people won't
know about the Contest until it is over.
to the Holy Country to participate. Obviously, there must be some sort of
delay between the death of the Pharaoh's body and the start of the
Contest, and this delay must be significant (i.e., weeks rather than
days).
Perhaps the Contest always takes place in Sacred Time? Except that would
mean that the body could die in the first week of Sea Season, and there
woudl be no Pharaoh for an entire year. That don't work, obviously.
I like the idea that each of the sovereignty rituals must be reenacted in
the appropriate season after the reembodiment of the Pharaoh. Thus,
whenever he gets anewbody, the first Earth Season he does Year King, the
first Storm Season he walks inside the Spiral, the first Dark Season he
goes and shoves the Iron Sword deeper into the Only Old One's body, etc.
The God Forgot stuff would have to happen during Sacred Time, I guess --
does he go play a ritual game of bacarat, winning stupendously on the
first play, to show that he still has all of the Luck he took from Our
Lady of Credit?
Anyways, this is how he proves that he really is the Pharaoh, and not
just some imposter. Very much like the tests the Red Emperor must go
through whenever he returns from death, to prove that he is in fact the
true Emperor of Dara Happa.
>> Jar-eel herself had nothing to do with the contestants, IMO -- she
>> ambushed Belintar directly as he was travelling through the parts
>> of the Hero Plane that he travels when he is between bodies. I.e.,
>> _before_ the Contest was over.
>Erm: who sees this? Who witnesses the action?
Nobody sees or witnesses this. The whole point is, I don't think anyone
in the Holy Country knows _why_ the Pharaoh did not return. Note that
only in one published source does it even say Jar-eel was responsible;
every other source simply says that the Pharaoh was not re-embodied. I
don't even think the Six Magical Leaders know, though a couple suspect,
and one might even have been involved. The Lunars claim responsibility in
private, but not in public. That's my take on it, anyways.
>Where was Jar-Eel at
>the time (I mean, could she have done this from a Great Temple in
>Glamour, or must she have been in the Holy Country itself as anyone
>sensible would say?)
I'm certain she had to be in the Holy Country -- you have to be in the
right place and culture in Glorantha to enter that culture's Hero Plane,
in most cases, Lunar magic notwithstanding. I think that is a part of the
God Learner secret, that they could enter from different places, but the
Lunars ain't rediscovered that secret IMO.
>Are we not trespassing into "featureless grey
>spirit plane" territory, here, with the interesting action of the
>world quite divorced from the part ordinary people can witness and
>participate in?
We would be, but the Pharaoh and his Holy Country are not normal, even by
the many different Gloranthan viewpoints. The Holy Country is so named by
him because it _is_ different from most parts of Glorantha.
Elder Secrets is conspicuous in that it says the Pharaoh disappeared, but
does not mention Jar-eel as the reason for his disappearance, negative
support for my belief that most people don't know she was responsible.
King of Sartar, page 147 -- "That kingdom, south of Sartar, had fallen on
I don't recall which source mentions a vacancy in the Pharaoh's throne
hard times since their leader, called the Pharaoh, had disappeared
several years [sic] earlier." Again, no mention of Jar-eel.
drawing a large number of Sartarites to the Holy Country, though I
believe this occurred right before either Grizzley Peak or the invasion
of Boldhome, probably the latter. Now sure if that source would be
relevant to this discussion.
Stephen Martin
ilium@juno.com
- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions
drastic@juno.com
------------------------------
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #215
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