Pavis Dwarves

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Fri 09 Jan 1998 - 02:37:35 EET

Stephen Martin:

Are the Pavis dwarves apostate?

Me>>No. It is stated that they are _considered_ apostate by nearly
>>all other dwarfs according to the Flintnail Cult writup. Now
>>with the knowledge of Elder Secrets and Different Worlds, we can
>>see that their error is merely Openhandism which is not apostacy
>>as such.

>When the article on Gloranthan metals was published separately (in Space
>Gamer magazine), a note at the end specifically identified the dwarfs of
>Pavis as apostates, who were not immortal. Or maybe this was in the
>Mostal cult write-up in White Wolf, I don't recall which.

Given that this mention (in the WW Mostal Cult writeup) also
claims that the mostali start aging as soon as they are made
and the allegation of apostacy was not repeated in Elder
Secrets (where it would have been highly material), I have no
hesitation of treating this paragraph as a piece of defunct
gloranthicana fit for the Christian's Bay Landfill Centre.

>>And Ginkizzie has been king of Dwarftown since Dorasor arrived
>>(in 1550 ST) and had been distressed at the sight of riff-raff
>>founding Badside (in 1490 ST). That's over 100 years of rule
>>which is stretching it for an apostate mostali.

>Not at all -- if you look at Elder Secrets, apostate dwarfs start aging
>much later than humans (on average, they start aging only _81 years_
>after becoming apostate), and age only 1/2 as fast. [...] Therefore, I
>have no problem with a dwarf who is 200 or even 250 years old (as an
>apostate). Thus, Ginkizzie has a few good years left.

Only the Uz age half as fast as humans. And you are ignoring the
fact that Ginkizzie doesn't become King as soon as he's made. He
has to earn his position whether apostate or heretic or orthodox.
And that takes _time_ in dwarf society. So Ginkizzie should be
almost on his last legs by now.

>As for Isidilian being Flintnail, long discussions between myself, Eric
>Rowe, Shannon Appel, and Greg, while working on The Broken Council,
>confirmed that Flintnail is in fact Isidilian. Or, at least, he was.
>There are a number of clues to this in The Broken Council, in at least
>two character write-ups.

Surely Pavis was created after the Broken Council so how could
there be clues to this in the character writeups?

However E. Rowe has come to your rescue by pointing out to me
off-line that RQ Adventures #5 contains a gweg-appwoved
interview by Isidilian which confirms that he helped Pavis.
However it does not specifically state that he is the god of
the Cult. I think therefore that Isidilian left behind some
Rock Dwarves to help complete the City and that the nameless
human son who founded the cult was actually Flintnail himself
forging a cult of human auxillaries.

>We are human -- how can we fully comprehend the abilities and thoughts of
>one of the Ancient Mostali?

If a credible reason can't be found for why Isidilian would damn
the mostali of flintnail to apostacy, then perhaps it would be
better for them to be openhandist mostali, no? After all, we
pathetic humans can understand Marteler's schism from the Only

Old One using human concepts of sheer greed.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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