From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Sun 11 Jan 1998 - 06:22:16 EET

Andrew Behan:

>The region now known as Doblian and specifically the western land of Arir
>was a hunter-gatherer society until the middle of the Second Age.

Not quite. The low land regions of Doblian are inhabited by the
Suvarians according to the 1st century map on p14. These people
are kindred to Darjiinites and also worship the Goddess Surensliba.
The map implies that the Suvarians also inhabit the Highland of
Arir but it's not comprehensive enough to dismiss the presence of
the Desjulae Hunters.

>natives were backward tributaries of the Dara Happans in the Concilliar
>period, and of the Empire of Gloom for most of the Second Age. In common
>with the rest of the Pelorian basin it was heavily wooded and had heavy
>soil which could not be turned by the light pony drawn ploughs of the
>civilized Dara Happans and Pelandans.

The heavy woods are a second century phenomenon that was caused
by the Great Forest Expansions. Afterwards the plains appear to
have been colonized by theyalans from the south who then organized
themselves into the Somarin Kingdom. I think these theyalans are
of the tribes of the Nungarings and Vesgarings considering they
are still there 50 years after Nysalor's death.

The next tidbit of information is the meeting of Arakang and
Ertelenari which takes place during Khorzanelm's era. I'm
inclined to make this an official attempt by the Somarin to
import and incorporate Naverian ideas during Nysalor's time.

Next snapshot: 50 years after Nysalor's death. Reforestation
attempts are mentioned in Arir. This implies that the second
century forests have been cut down in the past. Given some
tempesty (albeit unexplained) politics in Nysalor's Empire -
Angarko the Golden Diamond was murdered through Elvish
Treachery - I'm inclined to place the deforestation in this

Next snapshot: The Spolite Empire. Arir appears to have been
cleared by the Spolite Empire of the forests. Henceforth it
appears to have remained cleared although there are still woods
to the south of Arir in the Entekosiad map. I presume they're
non-elvish being right next to the Yolp Mountains.

The remaining history of Arir is straightforward. It was part
of Naveria when the Spolite Empire collapsed and conquered by
the Carmanians in 830 ST. After some vicious fighting spanning
several decades, it was conquered by the Dara Happans in 1140 ST,
only to fall ten years later in the Carmanian March and made one
of the New Protectorates.

>The dispersal of Carmanian iron plough in the ninth and tenth centurty
>precipitated the rapid decline, or transformation, of the formerly
>dominant hunter cults: Kenestrata, Orogeria and Arakang.

It's not certain that the heavy plows are made of iron. Furthermore
Arir appears to have been the origin the Dara Happan Cult of Ourania.
Compare her tears to FerNa.

>The new cults of
>Oravinos, Turos and Oria came to prominence and the old ways survived in
>the rugged foothills of the Yolp Mountains and in the northeast near
>Mount Jenalf.

Arir is a bit remote for the worship of Turos as the Bisosi
farmers lie between Arir and the holy places of Turos.
The Ariran agriculturalists would be more likely to follow
Bisos or Naverian Gods such as Lodril. Oria is unchanged

Me>> Arira is a girls goddess for Dara Happa and the Oronin Valley and
>> has no ursine connections.

>OK, but is she associated with Arir in the same way Naveria is associated
>with Naveria?

AFAIK no. The similarity of the words doesn't necessarily mean
the goddess comes from there. Case in point: Umathela.

>> Despite Orogeria's extensive connections with Arir, the placename appears
>> to have been applied by outsiders*.

>No offence, but I don't quite follow. What is Orogeria's connection with the
>name "Arir"as opposed to the place. If Arir is a late name applied by
>outsiders, I would consider that a compelling argument against.

Sorry for the confusion. Orogeria is extensively connected with
the place of Arir. However the name Arir itself appears to be
foreign or at least a latecomer.

>Peter suggests that ErtelEnari, not Arira, plays the role of the virgin
>luring a mighty bear
>That's what I thought to, but as Steve Marsh pointed out on the digest
>(gd5_152 afaik) Arakang is Ariran and ErtelEnari is Pelandan.

ErtelEnari is not necessarily Pelandan. The Feder cult has spread
far and wide so that when the Gods Wall was made, the Finger
Goddesses of swine, milk and cows are are shown in Naverian Dress.

>The myth
>I'm trying to flesh out dates from the Bleak Time, (and assuming
>Prosimius's gloss that the two cults didn't meet until Khorzanelm's time
>is correct) she can't have been the original protagonist.

That's true, but I thought you were trying to describe the modern
practice. Note that the Eldest People myth implies that people's
animals are sex-based so the original protagonist may not necessary
be a bear at all.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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