Hate crime! Make love not war.

From: Pasanen Panu (passo@students.cc.tut.fi)
Date: Thu 22 Jan 1998 - 20:57:09 EET


 Peter Metcalfe:

> Hmm we should become like the Neanderthals or the Dinosaurs? Elder
> does not automatically mean wiser by any stretch of the imagination.

 Elder races do know stuff human cultures don't, cause theyve been
 around lot longer. They have magics and secrets more primal etc.

 
> Learn to recognize sarcasm! This was a parody of your arguments.

 I will, on your courteous tutelage.

> quite easily. How you can continually claim that they are 'put away'
> is a complete mystery to me.

 Open your eyes, then. Humans occupy about all open land on Genertela.
 Some other races dot places here and there, and mix in elsewhere as
 minorities.

 
> > trolls to dark places is like imagining monsters under your
> > bed in the night. And like thinking that the abandoned house
> > is haunted. So usual, and, somewhat boring.
> So where would you have trolls? In the bright open places? For
> all your railings against the limited imagination of the authors,
> you have no presented one credible reason why the Elder Races should
> go outside their preferred living area en masse.

 Then don't get my point. Why their preferred living areas must be
 so different from human lands? IMO, uz would cheerfully take any
 and all forested and rich lands given half a change. Mostali

 factories could very well be above the ground in some places.
 
> > But you could substitute Joe from RW to a human
> > village, and he would not be seeing any more monsters than
> > here.
> In Dragon Pass (Uz, Beastpeople, Ducks, Elves, Tusk Riders,
> Dwarves, Newtlings and Dragonewts amongst other creatures)?
> In Prax (Broos, Morokanth and Uz?) Even in Seshnela, one
> can find Dwarves and Centaurs. I hate to be blunt Panu but
> this claim is unadulterated bullshit.

 Every encounter with those is worth lots of talk in local inns
 etc. They just don't mix in with the humans, which is my point.
 
> > Gloranthan humans are not supposed to be RW humans, even if their
> > cultures are inspired by RW examples, right?
> What ever gives you this impression. If they are not RW humans
> than why do we have humans in glorantha?

 Dunno. Say, do many RW humans you know of have magical properties?
 Can their priest call the gods to his aid? There are differences.

 
 Nick:

> Second Age (when the Elder Races marginalised themselves) does rather
> suggest that their glory days are long gone. The Lunars pride them-

 Sad that we have so little material on from that time.

> > With all that interaction and similar cults, some people should just
> > see the darkness/plant/stone.
> They do. See my list in V5#343. But this isn't the usual case.

 I know of those. It could be the usual case, too, or at least more
 common. The people mixing with Elder races are as very weird to
 most outsider humans, too... well, lunars are weird on orlanthi eyes.
 
> > Putting trolls to dark places is like imagining monsters under
> > your bed in the night. And like thinking that the abandoned house
> > is haunted. So usual, and, somewhat boring.
> So we should have been *radically* different, then? Dwarfs in the
> forests, elves in the mountains, trolls in the desert... unusual,
> and therefore more interesting?

 Exactly. Ever wonder why dragon has to get a cave, when it could
 just as well sleep in a river?

 I have said that to meet Elder Races you have to cross a border
 (as Campbell presented it). They live in 'otherworld' places, like
 under mountains, on dark hillsides, in deep and dense forests.
 Or the more unfortunate ones, who live at swamps.
 
> > I feel, that for example the Kitori are very uniquely Gloranthan.
> But does that make them more interesting, playable or enjoyable?

 More interesting, IMO.
 
> > Gloranthan humans are not supposed to be RW humans, even if their
> > cultures are inspired by RW examples, right?
> in essence) -- "Gloranthans are all religious fanatics"; "Gloran-
> thans don't think the way we do"; "Gloranthans must age differently
> to the way normal people do" -- then you're damaging our potential
> for identifying with and understanding the game world. Unless there
> is a *significant* gain to be made, I'd prefer not to do this: the
> price outweighs the benefit.

 RW humans are also vastly different from one another, some are
 religious fanatics, some think differently, some don't age as others.
 I think that you can benefit from identifying with a very different
 person, too. Like when you play a person of another sex (and culture)
 and you have to consider your social behaviour in totally different
 terms... but I get your point.
 

 If someone dares to argue with me on this subject, beware! You will
 find an uu-decoded lead pipe from your mailbox the next day.

 Panu Pasanen.

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